That's what a lot of people have been ask, even the mockers who fulfilled the prophecy found in 2 Peter 3:3-5:
3 knowing this first, that in the last days mockers will come, walking after their own lusts 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of his coming? For, from the day that the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.” 5 For this they willfully forget that there were heavens from of old, and an earth formed out of water and amid water by the word of God,
But, when they are confronted with the Truth of God, they run as if a Lion was after them. Just an observation, mind you. The mock, they ridicule, taunt, scoff, and they blow their own horn. And, yet, they refuse to support their gibe.
If a relative was coming to visit you and it takes them an hour to get to your place, why would expect to see them in a minute? They will arrive in the hour that it takes them to get to your place. They will arrive at your place at the proper time. In the same light, Jesus will come at the proper time without fail. This time, it won't be in a manger but as King of kings and Lord of lords.
This is the Truth that can't be refuted.
This is also the Truth that can't be refuted.
Be praying for you all to know the Truth.
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@TheWildEcho As said, it is not mockery to question the biblical interpretations of literalists/fundamentalists. Such people have driven more away from taking Christianity seriously than the likes of Dawkins and Hitchens combined.
@SW-User so do you not believe in the virgin birth?, miracles of Jesus? Resurrection? Future judgement?
SW-User
@TheWildEcho Of course not, not in any literal way.
Such stories were two a penny in the ancient world and therefore point towards certain truths of the human condition. I would say, from my own experience, that to go way beyond the literal is to deepen the truths and realities.
@SW-User I've never seen you on here before so was wondering what you believe.
SW-User
@TheWildEcho Sorry. I tend to assume others have read more of my postings than they may have done.
I like to change my name now and again. Before I have been "meandmydog" as well as other names. No attempt to deceive, I have been quite open about this. We all have our quirky ways and excentricities.
@SW-User ok, I wouldn't have asked those questions if I'd known you were Buddhist!!
SW-User
@TheWildEcho That's OK. No problem. I'm basically harmless. You can ask what you like.
All the best.
SW-User
@TheWildEcho Just to add, throughout all the various Faith Traditions of our world we can find, if we have the eyes to see and the ears to hear, the teaching/idea that in every particular is the universal.
Even from some of our world's great writers:-
So in that sense Jesus was God.
But when Jesus is proclaimed or understood as the ONLY particular that contains the universal, we get Jesusainity, not Christianity. Each and every human being is unique, a particular. But yet again, when Jesus is proclaimed as having some unique uniqueness, some particular particularity, then again we have Jesusainity, not Christianity. With the former we shall always have division and conflict.
It is all rather sad. And fear is at the heart of it all. Not seeing that God IS Love.
But when Jesus is proclaimed or understood as the ONLY particular that contains the universal, we get Jesusainity, not Christianity. Each and every human being is unique, a particular. But yet again, when Jesus is proclaimed as having some unique uniqueness, some particular particularity, then again we have Jesusainity, not Christianity. With the former we shall always have division and conflict.
This is why God sent His Holy Spirit into our hearts to become born again and to know the Truth about Him and to set us free.
SW-User
@GodSpeed63 Yes, and the spirit blows where it will. Allegiance to any particular theology, or any depth of experience or belief, guarantees nothing.
SW-User
@GodSpeed63 Just a further bit of dialogue, this from the Buddhist Pure Land Tradition (known sometimes as the Buddhism of Faith) Historically it arose in the 13th century in Japan, one of the "fathers" being Shinran.
According to Shinran, salvation is entirely a matter of the Vow* (Grace). It does not hang on events and conditions of time and space, or the imposition of man and society. Salvation cannot rest on chance factors. Shinran makes it clear that the reality of Grace requires nothing from the side of man, including the act of faith, as the causal basis for birth in the Pure Land. Otherwise the emphasis on the Vow (Grace) would be devoid of meaning and significance. Our residual karmic bondage may influence the point in our experience when we become aware of Amida's compassion, but it is not a factor in determining whether or not we actually receive that compassion.
We are suggesting that from the standpoint of Grace (the Vow) all are equally saved even now, despite the presence or absence of the experience of faith itself. The reason for this is that salvation depends on Grace and not on any finite condition.
Someone may ask then what is the point of being religious, if we are saved in any case? This is an important question. However, it reflects the virtually universal notion that religion is a means to an end. We get the benefit of salvation from being religious. For Shinran, however, religion becomes the way to express gratitude for the compassion that supports all our life. It is not a tool for ego advancement or gaining benefits.
The point of being religious for Shinran is that when we come to have faith in the Original Vow (Grace) and live in its light, we truly become free to live a full and meaningful existence in this life.
Shinran's perspective permits a person to see deeply into their life to detect the springs of compassion which sustains it; it allows them to participate and associate with all types of people despite their unattractiveness or difficulty because they understand the potentiality that works in their very being. In perceiving the compassion that embraces all life, the person of faith can themselves become an expression of that compassion touching the lives of others.
Yes, and the spirit blows where it will. Allegiance to any particular theology, or any depth of experience or belief, guarantees nothing.
Smile, in the 16th chapter of John, the Scripture says that the Spirit of God is the Spirit of Truth and will bring us into all Truth. The Holy Spirit of God will never contradict Himself.
SW-User
@GodSpeed63 And I am not offering any contradiction.
Your own implied claim of being of "all truth" is pure presumption and self-proclamation.
Your own implied claim of being of "all truth" is pure presumption and self-proclamation.
I don't claim anything for myself, it's the Word of God that gives testimony to my salvation and changed life.
SW-User
@GodSpeed63 Well, so you say. You appear to see yourself as distinct in God's eyes from some others who have not acted and believed as you do.
But hey, no worries. As a Universalist I know we shall all get there in the end.
Relevant here are some words of Thomas Merton, written in a to E.D.Andrews, an expert on the life and beliefs of the Shakers (or the United Society of Believers in Christ's Second Appearing). Andrews had sent Merton a copy of his book, "Shaker Furniture", and Merton was responding to the gift.
This wordless simplicity, in which the works of quiet and holy people speak humbly for themselves. How important that is in our day, when we are flooded with a tidal wave of meaningless words: and worse still when in the void of those words the sinister power of hatred and destruction is at work. The Shakers remain as witnesses to the fact that only humility keeps man in communion with truth, and first of all with his own inner truth. This one must know without knowing it, as they did. For as soon as a man becomes aware of "his truth" he lets go of it and embraces an illusion.
@SW-User I'll never accept universalism, if it was possible to access God by Buddha, Muhammad or anyone else then God would never have made the agonising decision to send His son Jesus to die, and Jesus wouldn't have to go through the agony of the cross!Thank God that He loved us enough to do that so we can know Him in an amazing personal way
SW-User
@TheWildEcho Hello again. Obviously you see and understand things from a literalist perspective. Again, more just "Jesus" than Jesus Christ. And certainly not from the perspective of the Universal Christ.
From such a different perspective than your own, the suffering of the Cross is more symbolic of God suffering in us and with us as the lamb who was slain before the foundation of the world.
Also, by most projections (depending upon how different theologies work according to their adherents) from the literalist perspective the suffering of Jesus, however understood, was in vain for millions/billions. And thus God's will that "all be saved" (1 Timothy) is thwarted and vain.
