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Happiness in the spiritual sense, is the presence of God and the Holy Spirit in your life. Without those, your spirit is down and sad and lacking fellowship with the Lord, and feeling that.
@pipedreams The only thing that has been futile, is your inability to believe God and take him at His Word. I didn't write the Bible. God did, so you should believe him. The Bible confirms that you can in no way earn your way to heaven. Keep believing this philosophy against what God Said in his word and you will definitely not make it to heaven. God said so. Read it in His Word for yourself. You didn't even answer my question. Again, if you don't believe in eternal hell, then what are you being saved from? God keeps trying to tell you how to be saved and you keep rejecting what he says.
@pipedreams please show me in the Bible where it says you can get to Heaven by your own self-efforts. Only then will I believe you. Please don't ignore God's word. You don't know how to get to heaven without God. You don't even know where it's at.
sree251 · 41-45, M
@pipedreams You said: "As I have found, if we allow words and meanings to morph in our mind/hearts, then Grace become the heart of all our world's Faith Traditions."

I agree. Words (symbols) and their meanings (concepts) are constructs of the "mind", the maker of illusions.

The maker of illusion is me. I am the Creator (God) as well as the created (mankind), the writer of the Bible.

Spirituality and God are not the same things. When people give their hearts and lives to God, that is a personal relationship, not a religion, and Jesus said come to me when you are burdened and I will give you peace, and he does. Another thing to consider is that we just don't go to God when we need something. We can go to him in prayer and praise and thanksgiving, as well... just for fellowship, and it is wonderful. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit in a believer, brings peace, love, and joy.
hunkalove · 70-79, M
That is where religion goes. Spirituality isn't about happy or sad. It's about awareness. Paying attention. Happy and sad are two sides of the same thing.
sree251 · 41-45, M
@hunkalove Awareness. I can buy that. It is not there when there is the distraction of suffering: bodily pain and mental anxiety.
SatanBurger · 36-40, F
Not sure how being spiritual means you're unhappy, I'm not even sure that's logical. Sorry if things aren't going for you but it doesn't have anything to do with anything.
It never "works out".......reality is "becoming", not "being".

So as not to repeat myself, I have spoken of Dogen's poetry in the Buddhism section.
sree251 · 41-45, M
@pipedreams Yes, Gautama. Thank you for the correction. I am not an expert on Buddhist philosophy but have studied the mind of Gautama (i.e. my mind).

The cessation of the world is speculative. The mind doesn't come from the brain. The mind is a mystery even though it is me, this state of awareness (or conscious awareness). As you must know, the "hard problem of consciousness" is unresolved even though we treat depression and anxiety with psychotropic drugs. The is based on the theory (belief of science) that the brain is the seat of consciousness.

The fathom long carcass is at once a reality as well as an illusion. It is real to the doctor whose perception of the body is verifiable by his senses and his mind. My senses are as acute as the doctor's but my mind is held in abeyance by awareness of its cognitive authority (knowledge of settled science).

I think Gautama also rejected the cognitive authority of his teachers to seek the deathless state.
@sree251 More joshing than correcting. My own pronunciation of Mahayana terms and names must cause merriment to any expert! I thought Dogen was Dog - n until I watched a film on his life.....ah.... dough-gan!

Anyway, yes, consciousness is the subject of much debate now in various circles. Is it confined to the physical brain in some way?

I like the zen guys words:- "If consciousness is confined to the skull how can joy exist?"

And Dogen:- "Whoever told people that ‘Mind’ means thoughts, opinions, ideas and concepts? Mind means trees, fence posts, tiles and grasses.”

Anyway, at least you put up with me. Some here just block me.....
sree251 · 41-45, M
@pipedreams You said: "Anyway, yes, consciousness is the subject of much debate now in various circles. Is it confined to the physical brain in some way?"

Conventional wisdom says consciousness comes from the brain. I think it is the other way round. Let me explain my reasoning.

First, there is awareness, this "inquirer" comes first in the search for its origin. The brain is not the seeker! It is an organ in the skull. I am the seeker.

Inquiry of this sort challenges the authority of accepted knowledge and rejects the consensus worldview of what we are and the nature of our material reality. It is a worthwhile quest because our condition of suffering is getting worse.
TheOrionbeltseeker · 36-40, M
The problem is that everybody becomes a teacher. 40 year old guys are becoming teacher of life which Aristotle could not solve on his own. Keep going. wow. Your own agenda will lead you to nowhere. That you also know deep inside yourself, don't you?
GeistInTheMachine · 31-35, M
Both extremes are present. That is the nature of duality.

When you are in Heaven you cry out to God, and when you are in Hell you do so also.
GeistInTheMachine · 31-35, M
@SatanBurger I'm not being literal.
SatanBurger · 36-40, F
@GeistInTheMachine oh sorry I took you literally lol
GeistInTheMachine · 31-35, M
@SatanBurger Not your fault. It's the internet, and when I lazy post, I am not putting in enough effort to be clear enough, lol.
Well what do you expect when it's where we go to heal, to learn, to resolve and to grow ?
@sree251 I think a lot of this existence is some sort of 'lesson'.
And I don't believe that we get just one 'lesson'.

I used to think that spirituality was something separate from this physical world, and our physical body.
I used to think that it was whole thing unto itself.

But now I think that it IS connected.
And that maybe it's part of that elusive connection - to find how symbiotic it all is:
Our body
The air
What we do
What we leave
How we affect the world and how we affect ourselves ...or let the world affect us.

Like, I used admire guru's who sat in caves and supposedly became all enlightened .

But now I don't.
Same with the Dalai Lama.

THATS not enlightenment - that's avoidance.
You can't know the struggle or understand the fight ....if you've never had to 🤷

And I think 'eternal paradise' is pointless.
I mean...God supposedly IS eternal paradise and what did he do ?
He created mankind🤷
Ok ..fair enough ....and then he gave us free will.

And whasnt that a massive clusterfuck ?

Now....evidently God knew we were gonna do this . But I think THATS the point .
I think as much as we strive to know "God" . God is strivng to know themself too .....though us . Through our imperfection . Through our fuck ups and desires and limitations .

And there is no end to this . There is no final level, there is no heaven or hell, there is no end game to achieve.
God has no end.
Therefore neither do we .

However , I do wonder if there is a type of 'leveling up '🤔

I don't think Nirvana or enlightenment is the trophy we think it is. In fact I don't think it's a final point at all. I think this spiritual thing is an eternal journey .

And the choice we have is to either keep doing the same things, all the time , and stay on the hamster wheel ...
Or....we can step off the hamster wheel and stumble around and try and pick a direction and learn shit.

I suppose it's finding what makes you inherently happy.....and worthy ....and has meaning 🤷

It's a weird thing .
They say ignorance is bliss . Yet here we are striving to understand it all ...to reach bliss.

And for me ... There's the catch : I sometimes wonder if I'm doing it wrong.
Is searching the wrong thing ?
Is it blind acceptance of what is ?
Are we just supposed to be happy to be on the hamster wheel ?

Ugh ...I dunno .
sree251 · 41-45, M
@OogieBoogie You said: "But now I think that it IS connected."

Of course, it is all connected. You wrote a good post. I would like to take this journey of inquiry with you even if I end up on the hamster wheel spinning it with you till we fade away and the inquiry remains.

The only sure thing is this material world and its horrors, and we need to stay out of trouble. What about farmed animals? I am having hamburger for dinner tonight. I saw this movie the other day and it was about cattle, the kind my hamburger meat comes from. Apparently, every bull is castrated to keep them manageable like the cows. And male chicks are killed off because they can't lay eggs. No wonder we kill each other by the millions in wars without a thought.

Spirituality and God. I think we are evil, a bunch of devils burning in eternal hell. What do you think?
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sree251 · 41-45, M
Happy and sad are not the same thing just as light and darkness are not the same thing. Light is the absence of darkness. Happiness is the absence of sadness. Life is the absence of death.
Pfuzylogic · M
There is a God!
Pfuzylogic · M
@pipedreams
I am glad you added your own concepts to feel comfortable with my statement but I definitely do not need presumed correction.
There is a God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob!
@Pfuzylogic Oh, I am quite aware of my concepts.

You avoid the whole point, as usual. Fuzzy logic!!

😀

Have a good day.
Pfuzylogic · M
@pipedreams Don’t be rude.
I know you are very new and you are one of the dharma proselytizers.
Be a peach and do that somewhere else.
SW-User
That's false.
Spirituality is not a place to go find happiness, true. It is a place you go to find and heal yourself. That can be messy.
SW-User
This forum is not a happy place, that is for sure.

I’ve never come across such waring factions.

I’ve had abuse thrown an me from Atheists, to born again fundamentalists, who question whether I am ‘saved’.

One troubled guy even throws abuse and expletives at everyone.

Best keep off this forum.
sree251 · 41-45, M
@SW-User You said: "This forum is not a happy place, that is for sure."

This world of ours is not a happy place. Do we keep off this world then? We are the world. We are this unhappy place. We have to live in this unhappy place. Money helps. It keeps the troubled guys away from us when we fly business class and apart from the cattle in coach. You don't want first class where the stench is.
TheOrionbeltseeker · 36-40, M
@sree251 Shows your complete mentality. Thank you.
Zonuss · 46-50, M
It's a happy place for some. Some people just have great lives.
Zonuss · 46-50, M
@sree251 No. In reality there are people and then there is you. I am not you. I do not think as you do. 🙂
sree251 · 41-45, M
@Zonuss The birds in my garden don't think as I do either but they are part of me, my reality.
Zonuss · 46-50, M
@sree251 Well good for you 🙂
ABCDEF7 · M
I need good education in life, so I decided to go to University.

Conclusion: University is a place of illiterates.
Morvoren · F
Or to celebrate the season and burn foreigners alive.
GeistInTheMachine · 31-35, M
@Morvoren Yeah, the English sure got around.
Morvoren · F
@GeistInTheMachine Get in the fire…

Unless you’re one of those fat yanks

ArcticDave · M
@Morvoren Yeah he’ll be in the diabetes brigade
sree251 · 41-45, M
Burning of foreigners is our way of life. We even burn each other when we don't get along.

 
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