Spirituality is not a happy place.
It is where we go to when life as a person with a human body is not working out.
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sree251 · 41-45, M
@pipedreams Reality is indeed "becoming". It is the state of the person shackled to a human body, that fathom long carcass observed by Guatama. I am Guatama.
@sree251 Oh! YOU are Guatama? Or perhaps Gautama?
You get into Mahayana territory...... But according to the more prosaic Theravada texts:-
Friend, that there is a world’s end where one neither is born nor ages nor dies nor passes away nor reappears, which is to be known or seen or reached by travelling there—that I do not say. Yet I do not say that there is ending of suffering without reaching the world’s end. Rather it is in this fathom-long carcass with its perceptions and its mind that I describe the world, the origin of the world, the cessation of the world, and the way leading to the cessation of the world.
You get into Mahayana territory...... But according to the more prosaic Theravada texts:-
Friend, that there is a world’s end where one neither is born nor ages nor dies nor passes away nor reappears, which is to be known or seen or reached by travelling there—that I do not say. Yet I do not say that there is ending of suffering without reaching the world’s end. Rather it is in this fathom-long carcass with its perceptions and its mind that I describe the world, the origin of the world, the cessation of the world, and the way leading to the cessation of the world.
sree251 · 41-45, M
@pipedreams Yes, Gautama. Thank you for the correction. I am not an expert on Buddhist philosophy but have studied the mind of Gautama (i.e. my mind).
The cessation of the world is speculative. The mind doesn't come from the brain. The mind is a mystery even though it is me, this state of awareness (or conscious awareness). As you must know, the "hard problem of consciousness" is unresolved even though we treat depression and anxiety with psychotropic drugs. The is based on the theory (belief of science) that the brain is the seat of consciousness.
The fathom long carcass is at once a reality as well as an illusion. It is real to the doctor whose perception of the body is verifiable by his senses and his mind. My senses are as acute as the doctor's but my mind is held in abeyance by awareness of its cognitive authority (knowledge of settled science).
I think Gautama also rejected the cognitive authority of his teachers to seek the deathless state.
The cessation of the world is speculative. The mind doesn't come from the brain. The mind is a mystery even though it is me, this state of awareness (or conscious awareness). As you must know, the "hard problem of consciousness" is unresolved even though we treat depression and anxiety with psychotropic drugs. The is based on the theory (belief of science) that the brain is the seat of consciousness.
The fathom long carcass is at once a reality as well as an illusion. It is real to the doctor whose perception of the body is verifiable by his senses and his mind. My senses are as acute as the doctor's but my mind is held in abeyance by awareness of its cognitive authority (knowledge of settled science).
I think Gautama also rejected the cognitive authority of his teachers to seek the deathless state.
@sree251 More joshing than correcting. My own pronunciation of Mahayana terms and names must cause merriment to any expert! I thought Dogen was Dog - n until I watched a film on his life.....ah.... dough-gan!
Anyway, yes, consciousness is the subject of much debate now in various circles. Is it confined to the physical brain in some way?
I like the zen guys words:- "If consciousness is confined to the skull how can joy exist?"
And Dogen:- "Whoever told people that ‘Mind’ means thoughts, opinions, ideas and concepts? Mind means trees, fence posts, tiles and grasses.”
Anyway, at least you put up with me. Some here just block me.....
Anyway, yes, consciousness is the subject of much debate now in various circles. Is it confined to the physical brain in some way?
I like the zen guys words:- "If consciousness is confined to the skull how can joy exist?"
And Dogen:- "Whoever told people that ‘Mind’ means thoughts, opinions, ideas and concepts? Mind means trees, fence posts, tiles and grasses.”
Anyway, at least you put up with me. Some here just block me.....
sree251 · 41-45, M
@pipedreams You said: "Anyway, yes, consciousness is the subject of much debate now in various circles. Is it confined to the physical brain in some way?"
Conventional wisdom says consciousness comes from the brain. I think it is the other way round. Let me explain my reasoning.
First, there is awareness, this "inquirer" comes first in the search for its origin. The brain is not the seeker! It is an organ in the skull. I am the seeker.
Inquiry of this sort challenges the authority of accepted knowledge and rejects the consensus worldview of what we are and the nature of our material reality. It is a worthwhile quest because our condition of suffering is getting worse.
Conventional wisdom says consciousness comes from the brain. I think it is the other way round. Let me explain my reasoning.
First, there is awareness, this "inquirer" comes first in the search for its origin. The brain is not the seeker! It is an organ in the skull. I am the seeker.
Inquiry of this sort challenges the authority of accepted knowledge and rejects the consensus worldview of what we are and the nature of our material reality. It is a worthwhile quest because our condition of suffering is getting worse.