Believing In Evolution Is Dangerous

@LadyGrace Material reality and spiritual reality are mutually exclusive worlds. The material world of the atheist is riddled with disorder: bodily/mental suffering. A spiritual life is one of order.

@sree251 Of course the material world is different from the spiritual world but that doesn't mean either of them are fictitious.

The world itself is riddled with disorder, from sin. And the spiritual world is not all "order". Satan is in the spiritual world and he reeks havoc, confusion, disorder, and devastation on this world. Things are not in order there either, but soon they will be when Jesus comes back and gets everything back to order. But for now Jesus is holding off His return, in hopes that more people will accept Him as their Savior, because once one crosses over into the spiritual realm, there's no changing your mind.

@sree251 You said that you close yourself off to the world. How do you serve the Lord and the helpless or needy by shutting yourself off from service to God? Because God said if you help the needy and homeless and sick and widowed, you are doing the same to Him, in effect. This is why missionaries go out into the world and serve the Lord. They don't shut themselves off from the world but God said to help those in the world that need us.

@LadyGrace Ok, I see what you are pointing out. Your analysis is correct based on the way you framed the picture. The material world is not fictitious to the atheist who can never escape from it.

Just as the non-believer sees the spiritual realm of God as a lie, I see the material world as false. Am I wrong?

@sree251 What I'm really getting at, my friend, is that you have framed your position as to speak only from what would be an atheist position, but I am saying that the world is real to all. All are suffering in this world, are they not? They are not imagining their sufferings. It is real to them. Well I see the world as God said he sees it. He sees the world as real because in his word he claims to have created it, right? Right. And he came to save the whole world out of the misery it is in so it is very much a reality. And so much so that later on he is going to transform the world into a place of nothing but love and peace, including no death.

@LadyGrace I am not shutting myself off. I am here discussing with lost souls in this forum.

@sree251 Do you teach them the truths from God's Word? God said there's no such thing as earning your way to heaven by good works or Good deeds. God said it. Do you believe it and follow it? God said unless we do, we cannot claim to be united with or in fellowship with him.

@LadyGrace Why do you say that I am speaking from an atheist position? The atheist believe in a material world defined by science. I don't.

@sree251 oh no dear heart, I never meant that at all. What I meant was you keep referring to the atheist position. I know you're not an atheist for sure. I know you love the Lord with all your heart and all your mind and all your soul. I'm so sorry you misinterpreted my message. I didn't mean that at all.

@LadyGrace Ok, no problem. I referred to the atheist position because it is a material world perspective of reality.

@sree251 oh I see what you mean now. You weren't talking about the world itself not being a reality but that unbelievers live in a material world and are more worried about the material world than Christ. That's where the confusion was. Now I see what you're talking about and that's true.

@LadyGrace I hope you see what I was talking about. Chances are, we still may not be on the same page. Conversations on the internet are more often misunderstood than not. But if you and are are earnest in "the meeting of minds", then we will succeed at doing that.

@sree251 Yes, I understood what you were talking about and I don't have a problem with that. We're just discussing things.

@sree251 It is our nature to learn how things work, yes, but it's not natural to believe that it was because of science that we learn and know about these things. None of these things, nor science, would exist without God. And God didn't need science to create things. He is the one that created science and he is the one that created all things as he spoke them into existence.

[b][c=BF0000]He spoke, and it came to be: Psalm 19; 33; 139[/c][/b]

We need to give God credit, where credit is due and that's [u]not[/u] to man. God spoke the universe into existence. God's creative act of speaking matter, life, and being, into existence out of nothing, sets him apart as God. This is one reason we worship God.

[b]As the psalmist wrote:[/b] [b][c=BF0000]"By the word of the Lord, the heavens were made, their starry host by the breath of His mouth. He gathers the waters of the sea into jars; He puts the deep into storehouses. Let all the earth show respect to the Lord; let all the people of the world, revere Him. For He spoke, and it came to be; He commanded, and it stood firm. Psalm 33:6-9[/c][/b]

@LadyGrace I could have been unclear in my statements. Science is the study of things created by God. What science creates is the nature of those things created by God.

For example, physics invented (i.e. created) matter and declare that it is the stuff all things are made of in order to explain why things fall. Newton claimed that gravity (a name he cooked up) is the attraction between matter due to its fundamental property of mass. I am not a scientist. I was trained as an engineer and understand the math explaining the bullshit.

God didn't create matter. Newton created it to supplant a mystery of God's creation with a law of science. This law that made us believe that matter is composed of solid mass has long been replaced by another story about atoms, moving particles so small we can't see, making up the mass. And even this cock and bull story has loose ends that quantum science is now trying to tie.

It is indeed our nature to learn how things work. It is also our nature to have a big ego to believe that we can discover how God works.

@sree251 Why don't you want to give God the credit for everything? Where do you think Newton got his brains and theory from? God.

@sree251 we don't have to guess how God works. wlWe already know it because the Bible tells us so, for those who will read it.

@LadyGrace Newton's theory is useful. Make no mistake about that. However, there is no such thing as matter and mass in real terms. Those are concepts: ideas.

Atheists declare that God is also an idea. Zen masters say that the self is an idea. I say that matter is an idea.

@sree251 [quote]There is no such thing as matter and mass in real terms. Those are concepts: ideas. I say that matter is an idea.[/quote]

Then I guess you don't even believe in yourself. I see your idea as an attempt to discredit the existence of God, and Him as Creator of all things, since you say nothing is real. The One you have said you gave up all things for.

A lifelong atheist on the internet has said, "I do not believe that mass and energy have always existed. Maybe they have, maybe they haven't, I haven't the knowledge currently why they would have to have always existed, so it's not an active belief I hold. Be aware though--- that's not the same as believing they have not always existed. Maybe there is, maybe there isn't a god. I don't believe in gods."

Sounds very familiar to your statements. Those who believe in God and follow him, believe in everything He has said, including what He has said in His Word. The two cannot be separated. They are one in the same, and while He didn't explain every little mystery of His to us, He didn't have to. Some things God left, as wonderful surprises for us, when we cross over to His realm and Kingdom. But what He [b]did[/b] tell us is the most important things He wanted us to know, so we don't miss heaven, [b]and those things are written in His Word [/b] that He gave to mankind through the prophets and holy men of old. If we don't have enough faith to believe in that, and that God is no liar, then we have [b]nothing[/b]. If we don't have enough faith to believe in the Word of God as being sacred, we have [b]nothing[/b]. If we can't believe God, then there is no faith and trust in Him....no foundation to our faith, and God said it takes faith to believe, and faith and belief come by, and through, [b]the hearing and teachings of the Word of God[/b]. Those things are written in His living Word, that [b]whosoever[/b] believeth in Him, shall not perish, but have everlasting life, and if we miss that message, we have missed everything. In that case, one cannot call themselves a follower of Christ, if they will not even believe Him or His message that He left for mankind. Their faith is in vain. No one will have any excuse for not knowing God the Father, His Son Jesus, or about the Holy Spirit, because God gave us the Holy scriptures so we wouldn't have to [b]guess[/b]. When we believe God, we believe on everything He said. He even told us WHY He left us His Word:

[b][c=BF0000]"[u]These things have I written unto you[/u] that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may [u]know[/u] that ye have eternal life, [u]and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God[/u]." 1st John 5:13[/c][/b]

This is what people miss, when they don't read their Bible. They will WANT to learn and grow in Him, through the reading and living by His Word of knowledge.

@LadyGrace I respect your commitment to your religious belief. Our common cause is to debunk atheism. You accept the material world and believe that it is a creation of God. The atheist also accept the material world but believe that it came to be all by itself through an explicable mechanical process.

The material world is not composed of matter as asserted by science. The theory of matter is not settled science and research is still ongoing. I also don't believe that I am a human being as asserted by science. Science cannot figure out how the mind is connected to the body. The Hard Problem of Consciousness is still being debated by professors in academia. No one knows for sure a damn thing about the material world.

And yet, the material world exists. Human beings also exist. It's magic.

@sree251 Jesus said, "Heaven and Earth shall pass away, but my words shall never pass away. They bring life and Light to the world. I am the way, the Truth and the life; he that comes to me, I will in no wise cast out. But he that is ashamed of me, I shall be ashamed of, before my Father in heaven."
It is unbelief that keeps us from God and heaven. Nothing else. This world has absolutely nothing to offer us, so we don't need to focus on this evil world, made evil by man, but on God alone.

@LadyGrace Is it unbelief that keeps us from God? There are people who don't know the Bible.

@sree251 You talk more like an atheist every day. Yes it is unbelief, whether from hearing the Word of God or reading it, or a minister giving God's message to people, that keeps one from God and salvation. Many people hear the message through others, just like Jesus told his disciples to go and tell the world about Him and salvation. Jesus said no one will have the excuse "they didn't know " because before he comes back he said everyone would have heard the gospel. Some, just don't want to know! Not always from reading the Bible, because some don't have access to a Bible, but you know that. It's impossible for people to not know or hear God's Word today with all the televised and satellite evangelism and missionaries throughout the world. Men will not have any excuse for not knowing about God and His way of salvation. Do not limit God in your thinking. He is limitless.

He that believeth not, is already condemned by sin, not God. God doesn't appreciate games people try to play with Him .

[b][c=BF0000]John 3:18 - "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to [u]save[/u] the world through him [Jesus]. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe, stands condemned already, because of his sin, he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.[/c][/b]

Sin always keeps us seperated from God UNTIL we invite Jesus into our hearts and lives as our Savior, repent of our sins, and receive forgiveness from him which brings us right back into fellowship and right standing with God the Father in heaven. People can make up all their own ways on how to get to heaven that they'll never work and one day they'll see that so they can just keep playing games but God won't listen. They only fool themselves. God said only those who listen to his Plan of Salvation shall be saved.

You seem to continue to look for loopholes, when it comes to believing in God and His Word, yet you say you live for him.

There are differentlevelsof belief, and differentobjectsof belief, but not all that’s called “belief”, is actually saving faith.

[b][c=BF0000]James 2:19says, “You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the [b]demons[/b] believe that—and shudder, but they are not of God.”[/c][/b]

These people are foolish. They think they can fool God, but they can't. They won't be in heaven. They believe to a small extent, but they still want nothing to do with God or salvation. So, if a person simply acknowledges that there is a God in heaven—and that’s the extent of his faith—then he has exactly the same faith as the demons of hell. That’s not saving faith. A person can “believe” in some sense, but still not be saved.

God cannot be fooled with vain imaginations or devices. He will not be toyed with, manipulated by man, nor mocked. He knows our every thought and motives.


[b][c=BF0000]Romans 1:20 -
For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power, so they are without excuse for knowing God. [/c][/b]

Ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his creative design and qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have [u]no excuse[/u] for not knowing God.

@sree251 One day Jesus was walking with His disciples. They saw a man who had been born blind. The disciples asked if the man was blind because he had sinned or because his parents had sinned.

John 9:1–2

The Savior said that neither the parents nor the man had sinned. The man was blind so that Jesus could heal him and show people God’s power.

John 9:3–5

Jesus made clay out of the dirt. He put it on the blind man’s eyes. Jesus told the man to go wash his eyes.

John 9:6–7

As soon as the man washed the clay from his eyes, he could see!

John 9:7

When his neighbors saw him, they were not sure who he was. He told them that Jesus had healed him. The neighbors took the man to the Pharisees. The man told the Pharisees that Jesus had healed him.

John 9:8–11

What does the story of Jesus healing the blind man teach us?
Jesus gives an important truth: the physical healing of the blind, tells us the need for our spiritual healing from sin's darkness. The blind man's physical healing, led to seeing the truth of Jesus, giving spiritual sight, and removing sin.

Just like that, Jesus can help us to know about our own sin. He can help us to trust him. He can rescue us from our sin. He can save us from the condemnation sin brought to us.

@sree251
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