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One Of Wonders Of God's Creation.

[youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9VRziKyJ0Y]

Anybody care to answer his question?

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“Natural selection is not only a parsimonious, plausible and elegant solution; it is the only workable alternative to chance that has ever been suggested. Intelligent design suffers from exactly the same objection as chance. It is simply not a plausible solution to the riddle of statistical improbability. And the higher the improbability, the more implausible intelligent design becomes. Seen clearly, intelligent design will turn out to be a redoubling of the problem. Once again, this is because the designer himself (/herself/itself) immediately raises the bigger problem of his own origin. Any entity capable of intelligently designing something as improbable as a Dutchman's Pipe (or a universe) would have to be even more improbable than a Dutchman's Pipe. Far from terminating the vicious regress, God aggravates it with a vengeance.”
― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

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1354swrdt · 70-79, M

Yes and the designer of the software on my computer suffers from the same objection as if the software was designed by chance. Dawkins is comparing chalk and cheese. Because he is a good wordsmith he convinces people. The problem is the extent to which evolutionary principles are true they remain a mechanism not an agency. Dawkins can never seem to get his head round that. Like saying that Shakespeare wrote hamlet aggravates it with a vengeance@BlueSkyKing

newjaninev2 · 56-60, F

@1354swrdt So the software on your computer was designed by an intelligence with a predetermined purpose, therefore [i]everything in the universe[/i] was designed by an intelligence with a predetermined purpose? Is that what you’re saying? Do you really want to offer that [i]non sequitur?[/i]

1354swrdt · 70-79, M

Just that if you are a chance happening of articles and matter how do you know your logic is rational? @newjaninev2

newjaninev2 · 56-60, F

@1354swrdt [quote]a chance happening of articles and matter[/quote]

Why do you think that?

I am far from a chance happening. I’m the second-to-most-recent iteration of a 3.5 billion year history of successful genetic replication. My entire lineage has been moulded by sex and death within a constantly changing environment... as has my entire species and everything that lives on, or has ever lived on, this planet.

1354swrdt · 70-79, M

So you have the mechanism so what about the agency?@newjaninev2

newjaninev2 · 56-60, F

@1354swrdt Agency? There’s no goal involved. Evolution isn’t teleological.

Evolution is the [i]process[/i] and Natural Selection is the [i]mechanism[/i]

Evolution is change in the frequency and distribution of alleles. That’s it. That’s what it is, and that’s all it is.. a natural and unavoidable artefact of sex and death within a constantly changing environment

1354swrdt · 70-79, M

Please get your facts right. This is garbage. @newjaninev2

newjaninev2 · 56-60, F

@1354swrdt In what way? Please specify your objections

1354swrdt · 70-79, M

The fact that you have a mechanism without an agency@newjaninev2

newjaninev2 · 56-60, F

@1354swrdt Yes, you keep saying that, but you don’t specify what it is that you mean. Do you feel that water evaporation requires an agency... that the physical laws of the universe are insufficient?

1354swrdt · 70-79, M

No the actual laws require an agency like anything does. Unless you believe laws appear out of nothing@newjaninev2

newjaninev2 · 56-60, F

@1354swrdt As I pointed out above, there’s no goal, no intention, and no agency is required

1354swrdt · 70-79, M

Of course there is. In other words your logic is no logic at all because it has no agency@newjaninev2

newjaninev2 · 56-60, F

@1354swrdt Umm, the laws of the universe are consequential to the physical nature of the universe. I don’t see what they have to do with either Evolution or Natural Selection, other than defining the physical reality in which that process and mechanism occur.

newjaninev2 · 56-60, F

@1354swrdt In what way is agency required?

1354swrdt · 70-79, M

But how did the laws of nature occur? They had an agency. Laws just do not occur out of nothing. That is not logical@newjaninev2

1354swrdt · 70-79, M

I would have thought it was obvious@newjaninev2

newjaninev2 · 56-60, F

@1354swrdt Perhaps I need to repeat that evolution is not teleological. There is no ‘end goal’. There is no purposeful design in order to achieve a predetermined result... nor could there ever be any such thing.

newjaninev2 · 56-60, F

@1354swrdt Obvious in the way that it is obvious the Sun orbits the Earth, or obvious in the way that you need to somehow rescue a conclusion made without due consideration?

1354swrdt · 70-79, M

So all your so-called logic is not logic at all because it is based on a series of neurons going round in your head with no obvious purpose@newjaninev2

newjaninev2 · 56-60, F

@1354swrdt Umm, what logic is that? I don’t recall making any arguments based on logic. Evidence, reason, and precision yes, but logic, umm, no, not really necessary, I would have thought.

What topic are you finding troubling... perhaps I can help you through it

1354swrdt · 70-79, M

No topic at all. Just you have no evidence that what you are saying is logical as you are a non-rational hapoen ing @newjaninev2

newjaninev2 · 56-60, F

@1354swrdt Why do you keep referring to logic ? I have not claimed logic at any point.

Let’s stick with evidence, reason, and precision, shall we?

First, of course, you might like to choose a topic [i]i.e.[/i] what, precisely, are you trying to discuss?

1354swrdt · 70-79, M

I am discussing how you, who believe you are a system produced by a non-personal, unthinking universe, can possibly think you possess logic. @newjaninev2

newjaninev2 · 56-60, F

@1354swrdt and why should my cosmic origins preclude logic? (I assume you’re using the ‘relaxed’ meaning of logic, rather than logic as a formal discipline, of which I know almost nothing).

Evidence-based reason is characteristic of a sentient being

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