It seems to me that in the context of the Bible, either many gods exist or no gods exist. Hear me out. [Spirituality & Religion]

If the god of Abraham was a real being and all other "gods" were false then why would there be any competition? Why would god have devoted one of only 10 cardinal rules that he handed down to humanity to not worshiping other gods? Surely that would be a waste of time because fake gods of wood and stone could not actually perform miracles the way Yahweh could and people would quickly abandon them.
Furthermore, if the god of Abraham is really slaughtering the enemies of his people by the thousands and parting oceans and so on...why are people still putting up Asherah poles? And why are they doing so again and again even after God has ostensibly proven his power?

So that brings us to the "no gods exist" interpretation. Of course other religions would have had stories and legends about their own gods and believe that their gods were guiding and protecting them (otherwise what is the point of believing in a god?).
Since that belief could not [i]possibly[/i] remain if their gods did nothing and the god of Abraham kept doing miracle after sign after plague, isn't it reasonable to conclude that actually that's all propaganda and that the god of the Israelites was doing just as much/as little as the gods of surrounding nations?

Thoughts?

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Qwerty14

Well that's simple. Worship of these false gods was harmful to society. So they put rules in to stop people doing it. Why did people keep doing it even after Moses's time? Well not everyone believed Moses. Moses himself doubted God and he actually talked to him directly. That's kinda the point. No one is ever 100% sure and that doubt can lead to people worshipping false idols.

Pikachu

@Qwerty14

[quote] That's kinda the point. No one is ever 100% sure[/quote]

That's kinda the point. If there was a god who was actively performing miracles while all other gods did nothing then people WOULD be sure even if they tried out false gods every now and then.

Qwerty14

@Pikachu But they weren't. Not even Moses who performed a lot of those miracles. Plus you gotta remember people thought those false idols did perform miracles. They used confirmation bias as evidence of their god's existence

Pikachu

@Qwerty14

Nah nah.

If you pray to your god and he does nothing and the other guy's god sends a plague of locusts, that gives you pause.
If you pray to your god and he does nothing and the other guy's god parts the oceans in a wall of water, then you're really starting to question your shit.
If you pray to your god and he does nothing and the other guy's god CAUSES EVERY FIRST BORN SON IN THE COUNTRY TO DIE...then you say, shit i'm wrong here.

No way.
In a context where Yahweh is actually doing this shit, there is just no way people are going to set up an Asherah pole.

Qwerty14

@Pikachu You say that and yet the bible said differently. The Egyptian people still denied the Jewish God even after the plagues. The Jewish people still doubted the Jewish God even after Moses parted the sea. There is always doubt. Even when you are seeing miracles right in front of your face.

Pikachu

@Qwerty14

[quote] The Egyptian people still denied the Jewish God even after the plagues. The Jewish people still doubted the Jewish God even after Moses parted the sea.[/quote]

lol YES.
That's point i'm making.

If a god really did all that while other "gods" did nothing then there would be no doubt.
The fact that people kept on worshiping other gods seems to me to indicate that the other gods were doing just as much/as little as Yahweh.

Qwerty14

@Pikachu No, they weren't doing anything. They were just idols. But the people at the time believed they did things for them. Confirmation bias fortified this idea. But that's why the bible talks multiple times about this and shows them that their faith in statues is wrong. Babel, Jericho, Egypt, Babylon... All fell and their statues did nothing to stop it.

Pikachu

@Qwerty14

[quote]No, they weren't doing anything. They were just idols[/quote]

Yup.
That's what i'm saying lol

Qwerty14

@Pikachu So you understand now that there isnt polytheism in Judaism and that false idol worship isn't proof of anything? Good. I'm glad we finally got somewhere.

Pikachu

@Qwerty14

lol don't be a tit.
My post here and my earlier post are two distinct contexts of discussion.

Qwerty14

@Pikachu And yet they clearly relate to one another lol

Pikachu

@Qwerty14

Of course they relate to one another because it's a discussion of the same text.

But one is a discussion of what the text says about the beliefs and the other is a discussion about what the texts reveal about the real-life state of affairs.

Does that clear up the distinction for you?

Qwerty14

@Pikachu Oh I didn't need clarifying. Your reasons and motivations for each post seem clear as day. And I've answered each one for ya. Judaism is monotheistic. Failure to understand Hebrew and others worshipping statues isn't proof that there was polytheism. It just proves people had doubts and people don't understand how language works lol

Pikachu

@Qwerty14

[quote] I didn't need clarifying... Judaism is monotheistic.[/quote]

lol it sounds like you really do need a little clarification given that you're still arguing about whether the text indicates polytheism or not.

You get that, that's not what we're talking about here, yes?

Qwerty14

@Pikachu [quote] you're still arguing about whether the text indicates polytheism[/quote]

[quote]It seems to me that in the context of the Bible, either many gods exist or no gods exist[/quote]

Maybe you should read your own posts lol

Pikachu

@Qwerty14

Oh...you DO still need clarification.
That's fine.

In the other thread we're talking about translations of the text and how they may or may not indicate the existence of other gods.

In this thread we're talking about what the story tells us, what the story shows about what was actually real.
So assuming the 10 commandments were written by God, it seems absurd that god would need to prohibit the worship of other gods if there were no other gods.
That absurdity betrays the fact that (As we agree) there likely were no gods at all doing anything for anyone otherwise an active living god would have no competition.

Does that help clarify things for you?

Qwerty14

@Pikachu The 10 commandments were written by Moses.

Prohibition of worshipping false gods is the rule. Also putting God above all else. Clearly defining that these other cultures gods do not trump the one true god of the Jewish faith.

I believe we agreed that even if God does things for others, they'll still doubt him. Even when God talks directly to them

Pikachu

@Qwerty14

[quote]Prohibition of worshipping false gods is the rule.[/quote]

But that's not true. It's the rule that you shall have no other god before me. Not that they're false.

[quote][quote]I believe we agreed that even if God does things for others, they'll still doubt him. Even when God talks directly to them
[/quote][/quote]

Then you have misunderstood because my point is just the opposite.
If an active, living god was really doing what the bible claims then there would be no doubt or worship of false gods.
Since both exist, it seems more likely that "god" was not actually doing anything.

Savvy?

Qwerty14

@Pikachu [quote]But that's not true. It's the rule that you shall have no other god before me. Not that they're false.[/quote]

When you talk about idol worship you look to the second commandment. But I also talked about the first commandment for ya. Dunno how you missed that.

[quote]If an active, living god was really doing what the bible claims then there would be no doubt or worship of false gods[/quote]

The text says otherwise.

[quote]Since both exist, it seems more likely that "god" was not actually doing anything[/quote]

If your assumption was true that no one would doubt a god who performed a miracle then your conclusion may have weight. But because the text says people still doubted God even when he performed miracles in front of them then your conclusion has no justification at all.

Pikachu

@Qwerty14

[quote]The text says otherwise....no one would doubt a god who performed a miracle then your conclusion may have weight
[/quote]

lol oh boy.
Evidently there is a breakdown in communication here and i don't know what else i can say to fix it
No worries.
We'll just have to agree to disagree (i think? lol)

Catch ya later.

Qwerty14

@Pikachu Lol again you abort. Guess it's easier for you than to accept that you're wrong 😉 ciao

Pikachu

@Qwerty14

lol i just [i]knew[/i] you were gonna be shitty about this instead of accepting the conciliatory attempt to acknowledge a disagreement and end the conversation.

No, i think you're wrong and failing to grasp what i feel is the very simple point i'm making and i genuinely don't know how to put it in simpler terms so that you will stop missing the point so spectacularly.
I don't know what you mean by "again" since you are usually the one who bails on a debate and are ALWAYS the one to start talking about [i]me [/i]instead of the subject.

There, are you happier with that? Is that more satisfying to your adversarial disposition😏?

Jesus please us lmao😆

Qwerty14

@Pikachu Here I thought you grew as a person and didn't need to respond to my obvious baiting but alas you took the bait and lived up to my expectations 😂🤣

Pikachu

@Qwerty14

lol Oh...um well trolled then? You got me. I met spite with spite.

Come on man, show a little growth yourself and just [i]try [/i]not to be shitty just because we're disagreeing.

Can we please try to be less antagonistic next time?
Thanks.🙂👍️