Do we need God for Morality? [Spirituality & Religion]

@SatanBurger

Hard to imagine but possible.

We change but I think that’s largely because we are being human and listening to our raw emotions rather just saying I’m not going to do that, I’m going walk away (or whatever). That’s just rationalization but we still feel good or bad eventually and lot of that has to do the kinds of choices we’ve over a long period of time. @SatanBurger

@SatanBurger [quote]As time goes on and we evolved to know more things about the human brain, it's proven with more knowledge comes more secularism and humanism. We don't do some of the things they used to do to people compared to what they did back then. It's obvious we don't need God for this reason, as we know more, we grow more.[/quote]

Man does worse thing now than he has ever done back when the world began and needs Jesus Christ more than ever. The human brain is the same then as it is today and will be tomorrow.

@SatanBurger We have evolved morally to such an extent that the 20th century was the greatest bloodbath ever. What a joked!

@Speedyman Yeah and the Catholics cut off children's hands in the Congo. What did you have to say about bloody again? It's a lie that modern times are more violent than other times.

@Spoiledbrat Agree but that's on the individual level, I'm talking about societal. For instance, doctors used to drill through people's skulls thinking it releases bad spirits. And they really thought this too.

But brain science has come a long ways so our perception has changed.

Laws and how we treat people come into play to what is acceptable or not when perception changes.

That's not to say that there are not still co-morbid factors like environment, childhood, poverty and genetics but I'm talking as a governing body between what is acceptable and what isn't.

@GodSpeed63 [quote]Man does worse thing now than he has ever done back when the world began and needs Jesus Christ more than ever.[/quote]

You weren't alive back then so you're just making shit up. There's no real way I can say that nicely.

[quote]The human brain is the same then as it is today and will be tomorrow.[/quote]

Haha, no:

[b]https://www.yourgenome.org/stories/evolution-of-the-human-brain[/b]

@SatanBurger [quote]You weren't alive back then so you're just making shit up. There's no real way I can say that nicely.[/quote]

Neither were you. So you're just making things up. I know the One who was there for it's His historical accounts that I refer to, not my own.

I think you find there is a most horrendous bloodbath in Africa. I know I’ve been there. Another example that we are not involving morally. Can I ask you how these people were buying Jesus is teaching of loving thy neighbour. And by the way it wasn’t catholics who cut off peoples hands. It was the war lords. I happened to know because I have been there@SatanBurger

The fact is we are evolving in the sense that we are learning more but we are not evolving morally. You think the firestorms of WW2 pointed to our moral evolution? @SatanBurger

@Speedyman There's always been blood baths in Africa, partly due to its long history with Christian colonialism ;)

There's been in fighting with tribes but that's made worse when corporations pit them against each other, also colonialism. I can provide a link if you want?

[quote]And by the way it wasn’t catholics who cut off peoples hands. It was the war lords.[/quote]

The Catholic Church's stances on pro slavery is well documented. I'll provide links later.

In the Congo specifically they took black soldiers to Roman Catholic missions to be trained under slavery.

The ultimate point is that other people can be moral because religion is [b]sometimes[/b] not.

@Speedyman I think we don't cut off hands of congo children anymore or burn witches or hold inquisitions. So yes human rights have improved drastically.

For goodness sake I will plug that in the Congo long before the colonialist came. The one thing the colonialist did was to provide them with weapons to kill each other more efficiently. The Africans where is complicit in slavery as the Europeans as were the Arabs. You need to read the history of slavery properly. Everyone was guilty @SatanBurger

You are joking. Have you visited the dungeons in East Germany or the camp at Auschwitz or the killing fields in Cambodia? Or have you visited China to see some of the results of the atheist regimes estimated 50 million killings? @SatanBurger

@Speedyman Today I can say that I'm Pagan, Satanist, Jewish, Catholic etc. anything I want, maybe I believe in Aliens or Alex Jones's theory that the gubmint is turning the frogs gay no matter how dumb Alex is? And not get killed for it. Nobody said it was perfect but things are changing for the better with the rise in technology and information, something people in history did not have in ancient times.

That's good enough for me.

[quote]Speedyman · 70-79, M
For goodness sake I will plug that in the Congo long before the colonialist came. The one thing the colonialist did was to provide them with weapons to kill each other more efficiently.[/quote]

That's not the whole story is it? Why don't you tell the truth.

[b]https://www.huffpost.com/entry/myths-and-misconceptions-_1_b_9637798[/b]

Here's a great link about what Africa was like before colonialism. Including the fact that war between tribes didn't lead to many casualties but what the Europeans did led to wayyyyyyyy more deaths.

[b]https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1986-03-23-mn-5583-story.html[/b]

Of course great wrongs have been done by colonialists but you guys want to rewrite history. Just look at the hundred million murders that atheist committed during the last century@SatanBurger

@Speedyman Secular countries are generally more prosperous but anyways the point of the original question "do we need God for morality" is obviously a no from what I demonstrated. This is about the gist of the point.

https://www.newsweek.com/less-religious-countries-more-prosperous-study-says-1032778

[quote]Of course great wrongs have been done by colonialists but you guys want to rewrite history.[/quote]

Yet most of the books about slavery conveniently leaves those things out or otherwise I wouldn't have had to tell you all that. Just like I wouldn't have to tell you that Darwin never said there was no morality, I wouldn't have had to explain all this to you if you supposedly know these things.

I do believe Texas revised the history books to fit their religious stance and sent them out to the general public. Most people now get Texas school books that leave things out. In fact most schools don't even teach a proper form of any education because it's based off of outdated information that is no longer relevant.

So what did you say about revising again?

[quote]Just look at the hundred million murders that atheist committed during the last century[/quote]

Only a small minority truly identify as atheist, about 80% of the American public identifies with a God and a small portion hide their skepticism. Most people in jail are not secular nor atheist for instance. Not that has anything to do with anything because it doesn't say much towards character of any affiliation. In ancient times they didn't have a word for atheism but Christians and Muslims got killed for secular views. During modern times, several countries still put [b]secular[/b] people religious or not to death, secular views are outlawed in some countries.

In America believers have stated that they [b]trust rapists over[/b] atheists. Atheists are discriminated in adopting children, not being able to serve on juries or hold public office.

Atheists statistically have poor job opportunities.

Excuse me but I fail to see how they could commit a hundred million murders if the statistics are not on your side about who is truly atheist since it's a relatively small portion of people.

Hitler for instance wasn't even atheist.

Atheists weren't allowed to join the SS. Heinrich Himmler argued that their refusal to acknowledge higher powers would be a potential source of indiscipline. It's well known that Hitler actually disproved of atheism and what he called "godless communism." It's also well known they went after left groups but tolerated far right ones. The Nazis and white supremacists still to this day, identify as far right and evangelical.

Nazi Germany was 40% Roman Catholic, in order for Hitler to even consolidate power, he needed church votes.

@SatanBurger

It's good to see someone really taking the time to be informed.
It's a shame all your effort will meet with brief, vague couple of sentences from speedy telling you that you're wrong.

What you have just said is unhistorical crap. If you believe that you believe anything. The point is that countries which are more prosperous of those who have a background of the protestant work ethic which comes directly from Christianity. They may be secular in their outlook now but they have the background of Christianity. Just look at them all.
The fact is that slavery was a black mark on the colonial landscape but was also done in collaboration with Arab and Africans who sold their own people. If you go to Cape Coast in Ghana where I have been to see then you can see the dungeons. The fact that the slave trade was put in into because of pressure by Quakers an evangelical Christians who saw it as a complete of front to human dignity which is spoken about in the new Testament speaks volumes and the fact that America had a civil war over the same issue also speaks volumes. I know that writing the Christian involvement out of the other abolition of the slave trade is now fashionable among secularists but it is also completely on historical and a load of crap. You appear to swallow the crap.
As for American believers saying they will soon appoint atheists atheists This is another example of your atheists propaganda. If people want to believe this then more fool them.
If Himmler was nervous of atheists it was because he saw them to be Communists while he himself was a pagan satanist.
@SatanBurger

@Pikachu Amazing how much you guys get wrong isn’t it. See the above. But it doesn’t matter how many words one puts down we still get the same tries and idiotic replies from you guys

@Speedyman I'm not going to repeat the same facts about colonialism to you since it's clear you don't read. I've debunked everything you just said before, not going to do it again.

Countries became more prosperous towards secularism. Which makes sense because secularism is more tolerant of different religions, women and minorities.

Tolerance and secularism leads to a more wealthy nation:

https://www.newsweek.com/less-religious-countries-more-prosperous-study-says-1032778

https://theconversation.com/religious-decline-was-the-key-to-economic-development-in-the-20th-century-100279

@Pikachu It's clear he's read nothing lol since he just parroted the same talking points I just debunked. But it's not all wasted, it's out there for the people who care about truth.

@Speedyman The church during ancient times had staying power. Hitler needed Roman Catholic votes to consolidate power for instance. A lot of things would not have happened without the church since they were majority.

Quakers are secular since they support separation of church and state which is what secularism is, I've mentioned the Quakers a few times on this thread. I already know they opposed slavery and I didn't attempt to write it out since I like them.

That doesn't change the fact that you don't always need god to be moral or otherwise all the witch hunts, religious wars and the Atlantic slave trade would not happen if you just believed in a god and that made you automatically good.