Do we need God for Morality? [Spirituality & Religion]

@Penny

Indeed. And i would argue that this inner knowledge at its foundation is a result of evolution as a social species.

@Pikachu and it would be a good argument if not for lack of source

@Penny

What do you mean lack of source?

@Pikachu inner knowledge is just that, inner knowledge, that which comes from within, not from without which a social aspect of learning would imply. - where does our inner knowledge come from? perhaps the God within?

@Penny

I don't understand the assumption that it cannot be both: instinctual moral predisposition and societal reinforcement.

@Pikachu the basis of instincts suggests there is some greater plan for us beyond our lives, whether it be procreation of creativity or whatever else.. and that there is a greater design to life than we can imagine. God is merely a concept of some intelligence at work beyond our scope of understanding. and yes it can be both but human thinking transcends animalistic urges and such that one could consider "instinctual moral predisposition"

@Penny
[quote]the basis of instincts suggests there is some greater plan for us beyond our lives,[/quote]

I think you'll need to justify that claim beyond simply asserting it.
Why?

@Pikachu look at ants and their social structure for example. they work by instinct. their life has a purpose. this to me suggests there is some kind of intelligent order in the universe that guides us somehow. then put humans onto the stage and that intelligent design is somewhat complicated as we supposedly have free will. our minds go beyond the confines of instinct into higher realms of thought or lower if it be the case perhaps if thats an appropriate word? (if you can get what I mean) and we need guidance as we are self-guided by more than just instinct as we have passionate minds and eternal souls as well as instinctual bodies. where can we find this guidance? many say God offers it, but it is still our choice whether we take it or not. so there may be an intelligent plan for lives deemed by God but it would be up to us to choose to follow it. this could be considered it's own kind of higher instinct in a way. our God instinct if you will. without it i'd say we are just fish swimming in a sea until our eventual deaths. not saying fish can't make choices, but that's a whole nother level of speculation and not helpful for my crude analogy.

@Penny

What purpose does an ant's life have?
Only the purpose to survive and reproduce. The individuals have instincts and behaviours which enable that purpose...but it's just survival. How does that suggest an intelligent order or a larger purpose?

[quote]where can we find this guidance?[/quote]

Can;t we just as readily find thins guidance from other human beings? A god's guidance is only valuable if you agree it has merit...well then what's the difference between that an human guidance?

@Pikachu do you really want more of my stoned and caffeinated bs? lol. ants have a purpose in the ecological order. they help decompose things. they have a purpose. again, where does the other human being get their knowledge or guidance? like where does it originate? if not from God or the concept of a God, then where? one could say "themselves" but that would assume they have intelligence. so then where does our intelligence come from? its an easy answer to say it comes from God and I personally think there is truth to that statement. I suppose it depends on what your definition of God is though, God is not some fairy in the sky. He is a concept of a higher power invested in our interests as his creation.

@Penny

lol yeah it's fun.

Ant's play a role in the ecosystem. This is distinct from a purpose which implies a mindful intention.

[quote]? if not from God or the concept of a God, then where? [/quote]

Well that's what i was talking about before: from evolution as a social species.
A predisposition towards behaviours which allow successful group living which in turn leads to more advantages.
If even monkeys have a sense of fair treatment, can we say that morality must need a god as a source?
I dunno, maybe god thought it was important that monkeys understand when they're being treated unfairly lol

‘Go to the ant thou sluggardl. Consider his ways and be wise!’ Perhaps teaching people the wisdom of a God. Just look at what they can do and think if blind forces could make them. If you do they have more brains than you perhaps! 🤣🤣’ @Pikachu