Do we need God for Morality? [Spirituality & Religion]

@Carazaa

I don't know what to tell you, carazaa.
This notion you have that no born again christian would do evil is an utter fantasy.
People are great at rationalizing their behaviour. There are people who believe whole heartedly in jesus and still do evil. They say "jesus died for my sins so i will be forgiven" and then they go one doing what they wanted to do anyway.

Please don't deploy the no true scotsman logical fallacy.

@Carazaa I agree with the punishment, but a religious person will rip you off in a heartbeat.

@Pikachu
Ofcourse all people sin or make mistakes even Christians. And some people have been taught to be honest even though they do not believe in God. However because we as Christians have God walking with u, and we talk to him all day we feel incredibly guilty if we aren't making him proud! That goes for all born again Christians. And Depending if we've had parents who hold us accountable for our behaviors and taught us to be caring people, or if we had bad role models, also plays a role what we do. But when we're born again we are new people completely, and one thing that happens is we want to make God proud so there will never be ongoing sinning without repentance and turning from that sin! God helps us to not sin. I believe a true Christian will never lie, steal, hate, or do something they know is illegal or unethical. Jesus was clear about that. " these are those who love me those who keep my commands! This is why some countries are safe and some aren't why some are corrupt and some aren't. Why some countries are very loving to their pets and no one leaves a dog alone outside there and in some it is acceptable to leave dogs outside at night and all alone most of the time.

Twice this year I have returned to the grocery store insisting on paying for an item left in the cart that i did not pay for. I did because I wanted my prayers answered and I thought about "do unto others as I want them to do for me." They said they have never seen that before! That tells me there are few Christians going to that store. Then happened to have left my wallet with all my credit cards and all my debit cards and checkbook and $200 in cash in the cart too and didn't realize that until I was home. I prayed and got in my car and went back to the store. Someone found my wallet in the cart and gave it to the store behind a counter. So I got it back. I knew Noone would take it because God helps me. (obviously I need a lot of help, don't laugh)
Many people are not thiefs and are not Christians Ofcourse! But that is not what we are talking about we are discussing the absolute truth that if someone is walking with God they [b]will [b]not [/b]steal, they will tell the truth, and they will not overcharge. This has nothing to do with religion it has to do with the love of God!

@Reverend Nope! No born again christian sin on an ongoing basis, nope!

@Pikachu Works based salvation and good works will not save you and has no bearing on your salvation. Either a person lives by the law or by grace. There is no in between. Good works are good for mankind to see and glorify God, some will seek out God because of works but thats all.

@Carazaa

[quote]so there will never be ongoing sinning without repentance and turning from that sin! [/quote]

Ah! [i]There[/i] it is. The born again will indeed continue to sin or even do evil...but they will repent. Well so what? How is that different from anyone else who does something they know is wrong and feels guilty or wishes they could take it back.

[quote]. I believe a true Christian will never lie, steal, hate, or do something they know is illegal or unethical.[/quote]

Carazaa... that is the no true scotsman fallacy i suggested you avoid. It's an attempt to protect a view from counter examples by excluding those counter examples without giving sufficient reason.
You will indeed find many christians every bit as strong in their belief as you who so all those things...and then they ask for forgiveness and feel like good christians for doing so.

[quote]I have returned to the grocery store insisting on paying for an item left in the cart that i did not pay for. I did because I wanted my prayers answered[/quote]

Well me too! I have returned and told them they missed something or i have made sure in ambiguous situations to make sure they know what exactly i am taking so that i can pay for it.
...and i don't it so that i will be rewarded with an answered prayer! I do it because i am honest and i think that is what is right.
If i act morally because it's important to me to act morally and you act morally because you want to be rewarded and not upset your god, which of us is acting more morally?
Did you need god for that moral action? I didn't.

@Carazaa also how can you have such expectations from a "True Christian". Im sure you've read the Bible. David was an adulterous murderer, Noah was a Drunk, Timothy was a doubter, Paul admits hypocrisy and the list goes on. Pride is a huge sin that a lot of Christians seem to hold to. Its always about them and what they have done, when the fact is.. they have done nothing but the Holy Spirit.

@Reverend Oh brother I've told you I am not interested! You can have your opinions but I don't think it is Biblical and I won't discuss it here! Please!

@Carazaa Not interested in what? I'm sorry but its biblical truth. Carry on. We dont have to discuss it.

@Pikachu
Are you sure that you didn't catch their mistake and asked for money back 😉 ( just kidding), I've done that too Ofcourse like all of us when were overcharged.
The difference between a Christian and a non Christian is the repentance! We feel guilty and stop our ongoing sinning. Some non Christians excuse it as though there is no God to account to!!
That's great that you are honest! Many people are because the way they were raised! I really respect that 🙂
I absolutely think that a born again christian will have temptations like all people but depending on their christian maturity will or will not give in to it! Many Christians get divorced! They are [b]not [/b] born again Christians! I stand on that absolutely! Because Jesus tells us that one way that we can distinguishing a Christian from a phony is to see if we are obedient and if we produce fruit! The world is watching us! Our behaviors ( in secret) exposes us! So if Jesus says it I will bank it's the truth!
It's amazing that King David sinned to a great extent in his desires but was so repenting and felt so bad and God killed his baby I believe for his sin of adultery! There are great consequences for sin!

@Reverend In debating with you on everything you disagree with me on in public! I think we have two different Gospels. We can discuss that on another thread!

@Carazaa I think we do as well, which is a huge problem. Sure we will discuss it elsewhere or in PM. Not a problem.

@Carazaa So apparently, Trump is not a born-again Christian.

@Carazaa

[quote]We feel guilty and stop our ongoing sinning[/quote]

Nah bud. Christians feel guilty and try not to sin...and keep doing it and keep feeling guilty and keep asking for forgiveness.
But guess what? That's just what the atheist does as well.

[quote] God killed his baby I believe for his sin of adultery![/quote]

lol the morality of murdering a child for the sins of the parent is a totally different topic.

@Pikachu
Atheists ask God for forgiveness? Have you ever done that?

@Carazaa

lol no. But they do ask for earthly forgiveness.