Do we need God for Morality? [Spirituality & Religion]

@CopperCicada

I think that is a self-evident argument against the need of god for morality.
I think most of us would agree that we would not rape even if we didn't think god was against it.

Most people are not rapists, but Gods standards are much higher. Gods standards are to lay down our life for people, even our enemies!@Pikachu

@Carazaa

[quote]even our enemies![/quote]

Or of course slaughter your enemy down to the last woman and child.
There are certainly people who sacrifice themselves for others without believing that god wants them to do it.
If you only do something because you believe that's what god wants then you're not moral, you're a sheep.

@Pikachu
It was God who told them to fight and God had special instructions for the Hebrews in order to get the Bible written, so we learn he fights for us and we conquer our enemies. But it's against the law to not fight in war if you're called, right? But we're not to take the law into our own hands though. I think it's amazing what Godly people do for others like the Jewish old man in the concentration camp who took a friends place and He died in his stead because he was a father! I think the father wrote a book about it!

@Carazaa [quote]It was God who told them to fight and God had special instructions[/quote]...to kill every last woman and child.

Sorry, i'm not quite sure what point you're making here?

@Pikachu
I can understand that you feel for the nation that died! But That's what happens in war every day! And those nations were at war with God! They worshipped anscestors and nature and sacrificed their kids to their gods and did not follow what was right in Gods eyes! God gives us a vision what happens to us when we are involved with satanic rituals, spells, and voodoo for fertility! In Deutoronomy 28 he tells us and in many other chapters what will happen to our families and our kids if we do! God warned them!

@Carazaa

[quote]But That's what happens in war every day![/quote]

But we don't call it right. We condemn it.

@Pikachu
You might condemn it but a country like Sweden wants the USA to help against Russia we're neighbors! War is not bad some countries leaders are tyrranizing their people and the USA is a shining light of help for the world against tyrants! But just because God does it it's wrong?

@Carazaa

There's pretty big damn difference between going to war to liberate a people and killing every man, woman and child of your enemy...and then calling that good and just.

[quote]! But just because God does it it's wrong?
[/quote]

No.
ANYONE doing or ordering that would be wrong. God included.

@Pikachu
So you think God was wrong to kill them if they were killing their own kids to sacrifice them to mulok? And beating their slaves and raping and murdring?

@Carazaa

Absolutely.
Tell me, if they are killing [i]some[/i] of their kids in sacrifice, how is it better to kill ALL their children down to the last little baby?

[quote]And beating their slaves and raping and murdring?[/quote]

I don't know about raping and murdering, but the laws for owning a slave [i]explicitly[/i] permit beating you slave as badly as you want provided they survive more than a day or two afterwards...

@Pikachu
You don't think God knows the heart of everyone?

@Pikachu
You think man and God should have the same standards?

@Carazaa

[quote]You think man and God should have the same standards?[/quote]

I think god should be held at LEAST to the same moral standard as a human.
But i think this discussion has gone as far as it can.

It seems to me that the god of the bible does and orders inexcusably amoral things while you are content because of your faith to excuse them.
Fair?

@Pikachu Am I excusing them? God says a nation who serves me will live and if they oppose me they die. Because they don't repent. They hate God, they do not repent so God kills them! That is immoral? You don't think it is the people who rebell and refuse to repent their sins, and continue sinning that are making excuses?

@Carazaa

Q: Is killing a people down to the last woman and child immoral?

A: Yes.

And you would agree with that in every single case...except in the case of god for whom you say thins like "god decreed this and people disobeyed".
How are those NOT excuses for god doing a thing which in every other case would be considered monstrous?
How can that be anything BUT the logical fallacy of special pleading?

@Pikachu I think hating God is immoral. I think those nations hated God, were hateful and made excuses for themselves, were proud, beat people, killed their own kids, and were rapists too. I think God had the right to kill all of them! We can't make excuses for our sins or we put our entire family at risk yep! I love God and I want him to bless my kids!

@Carazaa

I don't like the way you're attempting to redirect blame here so allow me to disarm it.
Sure those notations were being hateful and prideful.
Now what does that have to do with what i asked?

If nation x is doing immoral things, describe how it is therefore moral for god to kill all their babies.
I want a [i]direct[/i] answer to that, carazaa.

@Pikachu All of us deserve death because of our sins! God saves [b]some [/b]praise God! God has told us the consequences of our sins and we don't like consequences! So we blame God that we have to die!
I am heeding his warning. I hope you will too! Jesus came to take all our sins on his own shoulders because He loves us!! The human race deserves death! God has a right to kill all of us babies too! We are sinners not just by our deeds but by genetics! We are all doomed whether we like it or not. Yes God makes babies and Ofcourse He kills them too! But what's amazing is that He saves some! Praise God he is good to those who lrepent and turn from their sins and he will bless those families!

@Carazaa

[quote]The human race deserves death![/quote]

A peculiar sense of morality.
I don't share it.

But you're still making excuses for god because if a man went out to war with his enemy and killed not only the soldiers but every single woman and child, you [i]carazaa[/i] would call him a monster. And you be right.
But when god does it then he is not a monster because god is just and humans ALL deserve death.

...do you not see how that is special pleading? How you excuse behaviour which [i][b]in literally any other context[/b][/i] you would call evil?

@SW-User

She has very strongly held religious conviction but i don't ask that she admit she's wrong, just that she understand what she's doing.

@SW-User

lol ok deal