Can we stop saying that atheists are afraid to believe in god? [Spirituality & Religion]

@Kanon
You got that right, which is why we need Jesus.

2. Everyone wants to push their own beliefs; whether religious, moral or cultural

We don't push our beliefs on anybody. We share what we know and believe to be the truth. We distinguish truth from lie.

Skeptics like to suggest that people believe without evidence. But does this mean that those who believe without seeing the risen Jesus are doing so without evidence? No. Even though they do not see what Thomas saw when he knelt before the risen Christ and touched Him, they can read of what he experienced. Those who would later come to believe would do so through the witness of believers through the Word of God, John 17:20. This was the primary reason that John wrote his Gospel). When Thomas believed, it was through observing and touching the evidence that was before him, the risen Jesus. Contrary to skeptics' claims, “believing” or “having faith” is not, by definition, thinking something is true without any evidence. When the apostle Paul spoke to the Athenian philosophers (Epicureans and Stoics) on Mars Hill, he did not tell them to believe without any evidence. But he proclaimed that there was a day of righteous judgment coming and the proof (pistis) of that was the physical resurrection of Jesus: Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof [pistis] to all men by raising Him from the dead (Acts 17:30–31, NASB).


It's called: The Over Whelming To Be Right & Truth Be Hanged.

@Kanon

Well i don't think you're necessarily wrong on those points. I'm just not sure how they specifically address the subject.

@GodSpeed63

[/quote]

lol the irony of this post is hilarious.
Pleases refer to point 1.

@Kanon Not necessarily. Many atheists don't claim to have proof of God's nonexistence; we simply haven't seen any compelling proof that he exists. I'm more interested in pointing out the factual and logical flaws in theistic arguments. That doesn't necessarily mean that God doesn't exist; it just means that the arguments people are using to "prove" he exists are based on faulty premises.

There are also theists who believe in God but don't claim to have any proof of this, and are willing to accept the possibility that he doesn't exist, and don't automatically assume that everyone who disagrees with them is an idiot the way so many theists on here do.

@LeopoldBloom
God doesn't have to prove Himself to anyone but His work can be clearly seen all around us. Therefore, we are without excuse.

@LeopoldBloom And what flaws are those?

@Carazaa Too many to list. But one would be that you resort to the logical fallacy of special pleading to avoid explaining God's origin.

@Carazaa

I think my main issues with the logic are as follows:

1) When people say that the universe is fine-tuned for life and human life in particular, how can you distinguish the cause and the effect? How can you logically conclude that the universe was made for us and not that we grew to occupy the available environment?

2) How do you distinguish an all powerful creator from an all powerful natural universe? That is to say, part of god's nature is what compelled him to create. Well how can you say it was a god's nature and not just the nature of the universe that demands that things be set up this way?

3) Many theists will point to their personal religious experiences. Well how can you distinguish which ones are real and which aren't? The christian, the muslim, eckist and the hindu will all have experiences which prove to them that their belief is true. So how can we use such experiences as evidence that any god is responsible?

@Carazaa
He has none.

@Pikachu
Life comes life and not non-life. As you know, the earth is in perfect orbit around the sun to sustain life. Plus, the earth has an ozone around it to protect us from the suns rays. Plus, the earth has food to sustain life that lives upon its surface and under its surface. Plus, the earth has water to sustain life on both land and sea. Those that live in the sea are able to breathe under water, those that live upon the land cannot breathe underwater but the air around them. Those that live on the land can breathe the air around them but those that live the sea are unable to breathe the air that those on the land breathe. Why? They were designed that way.


The universe isn't all that powerful. It can't heal the sick, raise the dead, cause the blind to see, and the deaf to hear. Plus, the universe cannot grant salvation to us. The Lord God, Yahweh, can do all these things and much more.


I told you before, it's not about religion but a relationship with one true God, Yahweh, through Jesus Christ, by His Holy Spirit.

@GodSpeed63 Right! blaming everyone except themselves!

@Carazaa
Amen, sister, amen.

@GodSpeed63



I think you missed the point of that question, my dude.
You went on about how this planet is conducive to life as we know it. Yup. No arguments there. But how can you distinguish whether the world was created for life or whether life grew around the available environment?
Do you remember Adams' Puddle? Was the hole created for the puddle or did the puddle occupy the hole? You may say that it was designed that way but that is only a faith claim, an unverifiable assertion.


Beg pardon, but you're just reciting the elements of your religion. These are not verified. They are only recorded in a book which you personally have accepted as true.
Again, i think you have missed the point. When we're discussing evidence in the world that a god exists, how can you distinguish the creation of a god from the necessities of a natural universe?


Excuse me for the confusion. This is actually to what i am referring when i say "religious experience". The experience of one's spiritual beliefs which reinforce that conviction in one's beliefs.
If you as a christian experience something which confirms your beliefs and i as a muslim experience something which confirms my beliefs, then these experiences cannot be said to actually confirm either belief.

@Pikachu
I doubt that.


I'm not religious, remember?


You're excused.

@GodSpeed63


Actually that was a polite way of informing you had missed the point. As if you didn't know, lol
I clarified the point to which you had failed to respond. You have continued to fail to respond to that.
Do so now if you are able.


So then you were just reciting elements of your belief system. Pedantry aside, the point remains the same.


Good. Now you may respond to the point. I don't if you can but you may attempt to do so now.


I expect you were just tired when you wrote that. I expect you can do a rather better job of actually engaging with me on an intellectual level an really address the points if only you set your mind to it🙂

@Pikachu
It's you that's missing the point.


I don't have a belief system like you do.


It's okay.

@GodSpeed63

lol i was of course joking when i said i expect you can do better at engaging intellectually.
I did not for a minute think you were actually going to offer a rebuttal.

And you proved me right.
Play your little games then. If and when you feel up to actually debating the point, i'll be hear🙂👍

@Pikachu
I don't have games.