Well written ... might add John 14:26 to the list .. Thank you for such a strong share

Seo ... long before anybody ever goes into detail arguing against something ... they need to make sure they grasp and can define the something they are contrasting with.

You have created a doctrine ... this is the seo doctrine ... not a church doctrine.

I really don't feel you have a good grasp of the mystery of the Holy Trinity ...

I understand what you would like the Holy Trinity to be ... so you can have a winning argument.

Unfortunately, Socrates beat you to it ... using Greek established deductive reasoning ... it is an impossibility to deduce that a mystery is not a unless YOU solve the mystery.

You can quote scripture after scripture ... but you need to resolve the mystery .... not just complain that some 15th century Bishops offered guidance.

The world has awaited the light into the mystery ... am still listening ... but logic remains logic.

@questionWeaver: I'm chuckling right now. A mystery that is a falsehood will never be resolved let alone figured out. If the/your Catholic Church Fathers cannot figure out the so-called "mystery" of the Trinity, why do you expect others to come up with their opinion of how to explain a three headed god? I have given scriptural that there is no such thing as the Trinity and that the Bible doesn't support imagined falsehood of men, yet you refuse to read and reason on the scriptures I've provided.

I am a logical thinking, reason seeking person, when it comes to the Trinity and my reasoning and logical mind tells that trying to explain the Trinity as being part of the Bible is futile. Its like trying to force a star block into a rectangular block, NO CAN DO, it won't fit....It's been interesting talking with you, but I see that our conversation has come to end. Take care.😐

Seo ... I part with no regrets ... you obviously do not like churches formed prior to 1503 AD ... so no loss there.

I did have a much better impression of the post 1503 denomination you speak from.

Rhetoric is not logic ... never was ... never will be.

Those that push rhetoric, in the guise of logic, tarnish their own associations.

I am glad, in your mind, you have identified evil ... and have emerged safe. ... we should all have peace within our own thoughts.

You have not come within even the shadow of a discussion of the Holy Trinity. Which does amaze me ... but, compliments for the energy you put into it ...

You have provided an interesting thought process, which I will share.

Peace of the Lord

@johnny253: Thank you Johnny

@johnny253: The holy spirit is simply God's active force, not a person, that God uses to accomplish His will and purpose for obedient mankind. Holy spirit is likened to a "helper", personified, that activates and motivates as well as brings Jesus's sayings and teachings to his followers mind and heart and also helps them to do God's will. Jesus also needs the help of the holy spirit from his heavenly Father just as all his followers do.

Early Christians became filled with holy spirit and Jehovah said: "I will pour out some of My spirit on every sort of flesh." (Acts 2:1-4, 17) Those verses prove that holy spirit is not a person or part of a triune god.

Without God giving Jesus His holy spirit, Jesus would not have been able to perform the many miracles that are logged in the 4 Bible Gospels.

The scriptures even encourage those who ask for God's holy spirit to do so as long as their requests are in harmony with God's will.

@johnny253:

Yep Johnny ... seems Seo here located the following scriptures on pages of the bible unrevealed to the rest of us ...

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The holy spirit is simply God's active force, not a person, that God uses to accomplish His will and purpose for obedient mankind. Holy spirit is likened to a "helper", personified

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Apparently, she has replaced the long history of church teachings ... with her own ... then has declared her's better.

It is an okay thing.

Faith has weathered far more.

Johnny, my compliments on your gentle insights. I also really like the quantum physics analogy. When I learned quantum physics, I related it to the Holy Trinity ... it gave quarks more character.

Thanks again ... for the nice logical way you shared.

@johnny253, Question: If Jesus was God, and when Jesus was murdered on a torture stake, was God and the "Holy Ghost", as some have called the alleged third party, nailed to an instrument of crucifixion right along with Jesus? If so, who was running the universe while all "three" members of the Trinity were dead?

Faith needs to be based on what the Bible says about Jesus Christ.
If a believer of God finds out that the Trinity Doctrine is wrong or that they've been wrong all this time, then they should be happy and thankful to God that they have finally came to the realization of the truth, namely that the Bible doesn't support the Trinity Doctrine (Romans 3:4)....Really their faith should be strengthened and not devalued.

@seotelkniwt: The Trinity is one God existing in three Persons. Understand that this is not in any way suggesting three Gods. Keep in mind when studying this subject that the word “Trinity” is not found in Scripture. This is a term that is used to attempt to describe the triune God—three coexistent, co-eternal Persons who make up God. Of real importance is that the concept represented by the word “Trinity” does exist in Scripture. The following is what God’s Word says about the Trinity:

1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5).

2) The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun "Elohim" is used. In Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for “us” is used. The word "Elohim" and the pronoun “us” are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew language to more than two. While this is not an explicit argument for the Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word for "God," "Elohim," definitely allows for the Trinity.

In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus' baptism. Seen in this passage is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of three distinct Persons in the Trinity.

3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages. In the Old Testament, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord” (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). The Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Numbers 27:18) and from “God” (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also all the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another Person in the Trinity—the Father.

4) Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16).

5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any Person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.

6) The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and Jesus' human works (John 5:17; 14:10). The Father initiates all of these things.

The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1, 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27; Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.

The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus, the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.

There have been many attempts to develop illustrations of the Trinity. However, none of the popular illustrations are completely accurate. The doctrine of the Trinity has been a divisive issue throughout the entire history of the Christian church. While the core aspects of the Trinity are clearly presented in God’s Word, some of the side issues are not as explicitly clear. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God—but there is only one God. That is the biblical doctrine of the Trinity. Rather than attempting to fully define the Trinity with our finite human minds, we would be better served by focusing on the fact of God's greatness, His infinitely higher nature, and most importantly, His plan of salvation for all Mankind. “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?” (Romans 11:33-34).

I so agree Pink ...

OK, that's sounds pretty good. That would explain the relationship of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
It's too bad God isn't a book, he'd be a lot more understandable😃

@johnny253: It isn't my job to understand God....I just have to walk in faith of his perfect love and plan.

Oddnelly would you like me to send you a couple of unbiased links to views of the Bible?

@seotelkniwt: thank you but as soon as I get around to reading the whole thing Ill have my own view.

@Oddnelly: no problem Oddnelly, I understand. I am here if you have any questions. Or you can visit jw.org an official website of Jehovah's Witnesses.

God's love, benevolence, and mercy is manifested by exposing falsehoods that have nothing to do with the Bible, such as the Trinity Doctrine. God is truly worthy of mankind's love and worship according to Revelation 4:11 which says: "YOU are worthy (not WE are worthy as in the case of the Trinity Doctrine), Jehovah our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, because YOU (not WE), created all things, and because of YOUR will (not OUR will) they came into existence and were created." Why didn't this verse say or include a reference to the Trinity?

@Typhoidjerry, forgive me but I had to chuckle when you said: "....the vast majority of mankind is in hell because they picked the wrong religion...." No that is not the case. Jehovah doesn't punish people by consigning them to a fiery tormental hell who unknowingly died believing that the Trinity Doctrine is true and whose religion believed or practiced this false teaching.


I have learned that the vast majority of dead mankind is in "hell" a peaceful resting place, where no activity exists (Ecclesiastes 9:5,6 and verse 10). Sheol is the Hebrew word for hell, and Hades is the Greek word for hell. According to the Bible, hell is not a firery place of torment for the wicked to be tormented forever. Good and bad people go to hell which is mankind's common grave.

Think about this too: In the Bible, everlasting life is only promised to the "faithful". If the wicked live forever, even under tortuous conditions, then the whole Bible becomes invalid.

Like God intended.

@KaliKali: 😂😂😂👏🏻

@KaliKali: Pretty much...You know Jesus once said, you shall not put the Lord your God to the test. Meaning, you shall not purposely put yourself in a perilous situation just to ask God to save you. So, in effect, these rattle snake handlers are asking for trouble.

@LvChris: You too, have have some great questions. You have a lot to address. You have presented questions that many were/are thinking about, but didn't quite know how to express it. You have did it for them. May I touch base back with you sometime tomorrow to finish this interesting conversation?

@LvChris: Okay. I am here if you decide to further our conversation. I will though answer your last response to me tomorrow just the same. If you choose not to respond any further, that will be fine. No further response is necessary. :)