The TRINITY DOCTRINE is a falsehood [Spirituality & Religion]

Faith has to be based solidly on the Scriptures and the Scriptures from Genesis to Revelation's do not support the idea of a three headed god in one person.....Think about this: ALL the prophecies pointing to Jesus arrival never mentioned the idea of Jesus being God or God being Jesus. Many, many verses in the Bible interestingly only mention God and His son Jesus in the same and surrounding context, not three persons.

@seotelkniwt: The Trinity is a metaphorical alignment of the relationship man has with the Heavenly host, God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

The Trinity embodies and illuminates the splendor.

The Trinity is reflected within the Nicene Creed, from around 381 AD ... it is a sensational work.

It is not a deductive conclusion, rather it is an inspired offering. One, over which every Christian may dwell.

In both Latin and in English, it is the best expression of how I and others align the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

I have faith that this paradigm is true.

No element of logic nor faith is ever beyond question. I encourage your growth in belief in the word of the Lord.

I also urge you to return to the collective works from Constaninople. Use these as your basis, as they are far more extensive and rational then mere conjecture.

May the blessing of the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit be in all our lives.

@questionWeaver: I appreciate your sincere recommendations for me, but as you know I cannot turn to or accept the "collective works from Constantinople" and the "Nicene Creed". Since these writings or "works" are not solely based on the Bible in whole and you say the assumption of the Trinity is in the "Nicene Creed" or promotes the Trinity they are foreign to me outside of the Scriptures. You mentioned or urged me to "RETURN to the works from Constantinople"?....Guess what! I have never heard of his works or writings until you mentioned them.☺

Reading those two specific works would only add confusion in my mind. I am content with the beauty and uncomplicated theme of God's Word, the Bible.

Adding to or subtracting from God's Word by the inclusion of the Nicene Creed, the Constantinople writings, and the like would be going against what the Bible says at Revelation 22:18,19----"If anyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll; and if anyone takes away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the trees of life...."

Seo ... 1st ... I encourage your closeness to the word of the Lord ... it is a good thing.

In 381 AD, a whole bunch of bishops came together in Constaninople to reach conscensus on several topics, including the Trinity and the Nicene Creed.

Their writings are those of very wise, well-studied men.

They carefully crafted summaries of faith ... not to take away from ... not to add.

Their writings are full of scriptual basis. These writings have been challenged for over 1000 years ... yet, remain compelling.

Which words of the Nicene Creed do you disagree with?

How could the concept of the Holy Trinity be found as "adding something"

If it adds ... what is the addition?

@questionWeaver: Please send me a link to the Nicene Creed so that I can examine and answer your question more fully.

The "Church Fathers" of certain religions have added this teaching in their creeds and writings and thereby claim their writings are Bible based. That from my viewpoint and from the Bible's standpoint is "adding" religious, traditional views to God's Word by claiming the idea of a Trinity can be found in God's Word when in reality the Bible doesn't support the idea of a Trinity.

It is just as the ancient religious group called the Pharisees and Sadducees did during Jesus time on earth. They made God's Word invalid by their adding their own brand of religion to block out the real theme and purpose of God's Word (Matthew 15:7-9, Revelation 22:18,19). Notice Jesus words to those powerful wicked religious leaders of his time on earth, as he condemned the Pharisees for their hypocritical pretense of loving his heavenly Father, Jehovah God:

MATTHEW 15:7-9---"You hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about you when he said:'This people honor Me (God, not us) with their lips, but their hearts are far removed from Me (God, not us, not Jesus). It is in vain that they keep worshipping Me (God, not us, not Jesus), for they teach commands of men as DOCTRINES'". The Trinity is definitely a teaching that the Catholic church and other religions teach as doctrine.

Seo ..
Here you go

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This is the Catholic Nicene Creed, as used in the Roman Catholic Church’s liturgy.

This creed is usually called just the “Nicene Creed.” It is also called the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed, after its origin in the first two Church ecumenical Councils in 325 and 381.

The Catholic Nicene Creed is one of the creeds that can be found in the Handbook of Prayers edited by James Socias.

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We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation, he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered, died, and was buried. On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.
Amen.

@questionWeaver: Thank you. I will take a look at it QuestionWeaver and get back with you.

@questionWeaver: Thank you for sending this information. There are 3 critical points that I question about the Nicene Creed because it is not lining up with what the Bible says concerning God and His Son, Jesus Christ. This Creed in at least 3 places implies that the Trinity is a Bible teaching without using the word Trinity.
What's interesting questionWeaver, is that this Creed is not using scriptures from the Bible to back up it's words.

(1) In short the words; "....true God from true God..."(?), is questionable because it's implying the existence of two parties of the so-called Trinity, God and Jesus Christ, though not mentioning the Holy Ghost, the third party yet, from my understanding.
If this is what the Nicene Creed is implying, then that statement is not true or based on the Bible and I do not agree with this part of the Nicene Creed. Jesus admitted that he is not equal to his heavenly Father (John 14:28)

(2) The Nicene Creed makes the statement that says: "We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son..." Another statement that raised my eyebrows.....This statement is implying the existence of the alleged third party, the Holy Spirit, by personifying it, or making it appear as though it is a person that is part of a Trinity. When the Bible speaks of holy spirit, it is referring to God's active force that He uses to accomplish His will and purpose. Jehovah God is able to impart His holy spirit to His Son Jesus Christ and His worshippers (Luke 11:13). God's holy spirit cannot act alone or separate from Him.

Also, Jehovah alone is the giver of life. By means of His active force or holy spirit all things came into existence, including His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ (Revelation 4:11) Jesus is the "firstborn" or the "only begotten" Son who was directly created by his heavenly Father, Jehovah God. Jesus had a beginning Jehovah God did not. So they are not equal to each other (Colossians 1:15, John 3:16)

(3) Another statement that is not backed up by the Bible is: "With the Father and the Son, he (The Holy Spirit), is worshipped and glorified...." The Scriptures definitely do not condone the worship of persons, places or things and that includes God's holy spirit (Romans 1:25) Jesus commanded his followers to only worship and glorify his heavenly Father, Jehovah (Matthew 4:10).

There are other points and statements from the Nicene Creed that I don't agree with and that are not based on the Bible, but these are a few that stood out in my mind.

Seo ... compliments on the effort.

The bible you are using is not the original bible, nor likely sufficiently precise ... simply, English did not exist in the Middle East ... at the time of Jesus.

Hebrew and later latin preserved the word of the Lord.

Your bible is a translation of the hebrew and latin.

English, being an imperfect language, when contrasted to latin leads to natural translation issues.

Thus, you are using an imprecise language to claim other words do not line up well. Of course they would not ... the bible you use does not perfectly, comma for comma line up with the original hebrew and latin.

In each of your challenges you strayed from the bible verse ... you quoted scripture ... then you interpreted the scripture ... you are simply arguing interpretations. ... which underminds the premise.


Now ...

Before God, are you telling me you don't agree with the words of the Nicene Creed?

Are you telling me you don't believe in one God? ... that you don't hold God in esteem? That actions you take, would not be considered worship? ... as far as Webster's defines the word?

Simply entering a church is considered worship ... singing and music is the manifestation of glory ... I have a hard time believing you never enter a church, nor ever listen to church music.

Remember, hebrew and latin are not flat languages like english.

Have to wonder if you are implying the Roman Catholic church, where bishops gave their lives, for centuries ... for centuries ... to preserve the word of the Lord ... don't use it?

They were the ones who made sure it got into your hands ... so you can sit in a easy chair to read it.

Each of the points you made were debated extensively from 325 to 381 ... further, when the bible was translated into English ... everybody worked to get it right ... lets not be too critical. They did good under the circumstances.

As to the Trinity ... you must read the writings from 325 AD ... the Bishops looked at your questions and a hundred more ... they are extensively discussed, referenced back to scripture .... with wording carefully chosen ... but, it was not english.

Return to 325 AD and challenge the Trinity there. The writings are available in both hebrew and latin.

There also a lot of scriptural based historical texts on the Trinity. I would recommend starting there. Trust me, this has been discussed endlessly ... in refreshing context.

Now .. just being polite .. but, no more discussion until you discontinue saying "not backed up by the bible" ... that needs to be ... "you don't see how it is backed up by the bible"

Let's keep it real!

@questionWeaver: Sorry I didn't get back with you. As you know there IS life after and before SimilarWorlds🙂 I am not ignoring you. I've read your last response to me and will get back with you with my reply sometime tomorrow evening EST time or as soon as possible.

Hi Seo ... lol ... no problem ... may blessings be your best friend!

@questionWeaver: Thank you. Blessings to you as well. 💤😴

Seo .... John 14:26

Here is a small riddle for you ...

The following are the bible passage for John 14:26 from lots of Bibles ... there are 4,700 more ... these are amongst the most common

Remembering the Bible was translated from hebrew, to greek, to latin to english.

And recopied many times over 1,800 years

Most all the passages reference "...Holy Spirit sent in my name..."

So, that part has a lot of uniformity.

So, can you argue that the Holy Spirit will not be sent in the name of Jesus?

Once again, keeping very literal ... If the Holy Spirit is in the name of Jesus ... the name of the Holy Spirit will be Jesus

Stay literal now

So, the name of the Holy Spirit will be Jesus ... of course ... Jesus is the name of Jesus

So, if I prayed "in the NAME" of the Son and Holy Spirit ... would we not agree the NAME was Jesus?

You are now 1/3rd of the way to the scriptual basis for the Holy Trinity.

Remember, the Holy Trinity asserts the most literal reading of the bible, in regards to the NAME of the father, the son and the Holy Spirit ...

To resolve the issue of everybody getting the same name ... the church stated the obvious ... the Holy Trinity is a "Holy mystery inaccessible to reason"

Here is where the faith comes in ... something inaccessible to reason, requires faith.

Thus, to prove the Holy Trinity wrong ... you have to remove the the mystery ... by either identifying scriptural basis that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are never referred to, in the same name ... or somehow locate scriptural basis for when something is the same name, but it is really not the same name.

This has been chased for 1,800 years ... give it your best shot ... but, you have to refute John 14:26 to say the Holy Trinity is false.

Please, do not restate the Holy Trinity in secular terms ... leave it as it was in 325 AD, before google.

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KJ21

But the Comforter, who is the Holy Ghost whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

ASV

But the Comforter, even the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said unto you.

AMP

But the Helper (Comforter, Advocate, Intercessor—Counselor, Strengthener, Standby), the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name [in My place, to represent Me and act on My behalf], He will teach you all things. And He will help you remember everything that I have told you.

AMPC

But the Comforter (Counselor, Helper, Intercessor, Advocate, Strengthener, Standby), the Holy Spirit, Whom the Father will send in My name [in My place, to represent Me and act on My behalf], He will teach you all things. And He will cause you to recall (will remind you of, bring to your remembrance) everything I have told you.

BRG

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

CEB

The Companion, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything and will remind you of everything I told you.

CJB

But the Counselor, the Ruach HaKodesh, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything; that is, he will remind you of everything I have said to you.

CEV

But the Holy Spirit will come and help you, because the Father will send the Spirit to take my place. The Spirit will teach you everything and will remind you of what I said while I was with you.

DARBY

but the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, *he* shall teach you all things, and will bring to your remembrance all the things which I have said to you.

DLNT

But the Helper— the Holy Spirit, Whom the Father will send in My name— that One will teach you all things, and remind you of everything which I said toyou.

DRA

But the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring all things to your mind, whatsoever I shall have said to you.

ERV

But the Helper will teach you everything and cause you to remember all that I told you. This Helper is the Holy Spirit that the Father will send in my name.

ESV

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

ESVUK

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

EXB

But the ·Helper [Counselor; Advocate; see 14:15] will teach you ·everything [all things] and will ·cause you to remember[remind you of] all that I told you. This Helper is the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in my name.

GNV

But the Comforter, which is the holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my Name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, which I have told you.

GW

However, the helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything. He will remind you of everything that I have ever told you.

GNT

The Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything and make you remember all that I have told you.

HCSB

But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit—the Father will send Him in My name—will teach you all things and remind you of everything I have told you.

ICB

But the Helper will teach you everything. He will cause you to remember all the things I told you. This Helper is the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in my name.

ISV

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and remind you of everything that I have told you.

PHILLIPS

“I have said all this while I am still with you. But the one who is coming to stand by you, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in my name, will be your teacher and will bring to your minds all that I have said to you.

JUB

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all the things that I have said unto you.

KJV

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

AKJV

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

LEB

But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name—that one will teach you all things, and will remind you of everything that I said to you.

TLB

But when the Father sends the Comforter instead of me*—and by the Comforter I mean the Holy Spirit—he will teach you much, as well as remind you of everything I myself have told you.

MSG

“I’m telling you these things while I’m still living with you. The Friend, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send at my request, will make everything plain to you. He will remind you of all the things I have told you. I’m leaving you well and whole. That’s my parting gift to you. Peace. I don’t leave you the way you’re used to being left—feeling abandoned, bereft. So don’t be upset. Don’t be distraught.

MEV

But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, will teach you everything and remind you of all that I told you.

MOUNCE

But the Paraclete, the Holy Spirit, · whom the Father will send in · my name, will instruct you regarding all things, and cause you to remember everything that I have told you.

NOG

However, the helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything. He will remind you of everything that I have ever told you.

NABRE

The Advocate, the holy Spirit that the Father will send in my name—he will teach you everything and remind you of all that [I] told you.

NASB

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.

NCV

But the Helper will teach you everything and will cause you to remember all that I told you. This Helper is the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in my name.

NET

But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything, and will cause you to remember everything I said to you.

NIRV

But the Father will send the Friend in my name to help you. The Friend is the Holy Spirit. He will teach you all things. He will remind you of everything I have said to you.

NIV

But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

NIVUK

But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

NKJV

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

NLV

The Helper is the Holy Spirit. The Father will send Him in My place. He will teach you everything and help you remember everything I have told you.

NLT

But when the Father sends the Advocate as my representative—that is, the Holy Spirit—he will teach you everything and will remind you of everything I have told you.

NRSV

But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything, and remind you of all that I have said to you.

NRSVA

But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything, and remind you of all that I have said to you.

NRSVACE

But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything, and remind you of all that I have said to you.

NRSVCE

But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything, and remind you of all that I have said to you.

OJB

But the Melitz Yosher (Praklit, Advocate, Counselor, Helper in Court), the Ruach Hakodesh which HaAv will send b’Shem of me, He will teach you all things and will remind you of all things which I told you.

RSV

But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

RSVCE

But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

TLV

But the Helper, the Ruach ha-Kodesh whom the Father will send in My name, will teach you everything and remind you of everything that I said to you.

VOICE

The Father is sending a great Helper, the Holy Spirit, in My name to teach you everything and to remind you of all I have said to you.

WEB

But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and will remind you of all that I said to you.

WE

But the Holy Spirit is the one who will help you. My Father will send him in my name. He will teach you everything that I have said to you. His Helper will remind you of all that I said.

WYC

but that Holy Ghost, the comforter, whom the Father shall send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and shall show to you all things, whatever things I shall say to you [he shall teach you all things, and shall show, or remember, to you all things, whatever I shall say to you].

YLT

and the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and remind you of all things that I said to you

@questionWeaver: Keepin' it real as always. What's interesting is that most people cannot handle "keepin' it real" from others, if it doesn't go along with what they believe or say. With that said I will address your questions as best as possible. Mind you, I deal only with common sense and logic when it comes to the Trinity Doctrine.

Yes, I wholeheartedly believe that the New World Translation (NWT) Bible is a Translation that has printed Scripture very close to the original Hebrew and Greek text of God's Word.

Yes, I say before God, I do not agree with the words of the Nicene Creed. The Nicene Creed is like sweet kool-aid, with arsenic in it. It sounds good, but it is very deceptive and misleading, because it implies that there is such a thing as a Trinity, which is not the case. The Trinity implies that the Father, Son, and holy spirit are all knowing, all equal and all had no beginning. Those three things alone defy what the scriptures say concerning the relationship between Jehovah God and His son Jesus Christ, let alone the holy spirit.

I do believe in one God, but not a three-in-one God. Jesus is not Almighty God. The Scriptures call Jesus a Mighty God however, he is not equal to God, and he is not all knowing like his heavenly Father, Jehovah. The holy spirit is not God, nor can holy spirit operate separate from God in the sense that holy spirit is simply God's active force by which He uses to accomplish His will and purpose. The Nicene Creed and other Church father writings would have you believe that all three mentionables are equal in every way. And it really gets fuzzy when someone who is not even religious claims the Trinity Doctrine is "law".

Yes I hold God in great esteem and awe. Simply because I do not believe in a falsehood like the Trinity doesn't mean I don't 😀☺. I would venture to say that you and those commenting on this thread/topic, secretly in your mind and heart find the Trinity Doctrine very confusing unbeknownst to your fellow peers, each other and Trinitarians. 😀 And who knows, they may be even saying in their heart that the Trinity Doctrine is ludicrous.

At this point I will deal with several of countless verses from the Bible that refutes the great falsehood of the Trinity. My response to you will be my response to the others on this thread who believe the Trinity Doctrine teaching is Bible based. In otherwords there is no need for me to respond to others on this thread. My response to them will be via my comments to you and what I've already stated on this thread and topic. They simply have to read our conversations.

There are 3 questions that I will be discussing:

(1) Does the Bible teach that all who are said to be part of the Trinity are eternal, none having a beginning? The verse(s) I will use and reason from are taken from Colossians 1:15,16

(2) Does the Bible teach that all parties of the Trinity are equal to one another? The verse(s) I will use and reason from is taken from Mark 13:32

(3) Does the Bible teach that each of those said to be part of the Trinity is God? There are several verses of many that I will use to reason with you to show that those who believe in the Trinity teaching are believing in a falsehood. These verses are what I will reason on to prove that the Trinity nor the idea of a Trinity is in the Bible. John 17:1-3, 1st Corinthians 8:5,6, 1st Peter 1:3.....The verses I use will have back-up verses as well.

questionWeaver......, you and those who agree with you can put your heads together and try to come up with a way to refute my beliefs concerning the Trinity Doctrine.....You guys will have plenty of time to come up with something logical and that makes sense. I am logging off SW'S for now, until later this evening, by then one of you or all of you who believe in and promote the Trinity Doctrine will have something for me to at least consider ☺

@seotelkniwt: Hi seo ... no can do ... you have jumped out of scripture rather far ... and way off topic ...

You are targeting your impression of what the nicene creed means ... not the real words.

I could never find scriptual basis that addresses your interpretations. I do not understand where you found or thought of these things.

Make of the Trinity what you want ... the church says the Holy Trinity is a mystery inaccessible to reason ...

You have not located and shared ANY scripture that explains the mystery.

You have a hollow argument.

I can not challenge an argument you do not put forth.

I get that you don't like the Roman Catholic church ... I am interested in why that is.

I don't see any reason you would want to challenge the church ... the same church that protected bible you use and gave life for it.

We all grow.

The Holy Trinity is a mystery inaccessible to reason.

Simply explain why it is not a mystery.

@questionWeaver: I do not speak of my own interpretation concerning the Trinity or any false doctrine for that matter. As I've already said: The Bible has and can do a much better job of interpreting its own self. I simply state and reason on what the Bible brings out. My negative impression of the Nicene Creed is a reflection of accurate knowledge from what I've learned from the Bible.

Why is that you could not find scriptural basis for what I've mentioned in my last response to you? What I mentioned is the Scriptural basis for denouncing the invalidity of the Trinity teaching.

There is no scriptural basis for your assertations either, I might add. You cannot prove I'm wrong....Also, it's pretty strange and amazing that the Church cannot even explain their own, its own doctrine of the Trinity, by simply saying this false teaching is "a mystery inaccessible to reason"....This vague answer leaves the sincere lover of God and the Bible wondering why?

QUESTION: Why did God create humans with the ability to reason, to think and to see that this or that doesn't or does make sense? Aren't we made in God's image? Why would a loving heavenly Father make His being, existence and makeup difficult to understand by His earthly children concerning the Trinity? The scriptures say that Jehovah is a God, NOT of disorder or confusion, but of peace (1st Corinthians 14:33) The Trinity Doctrine is certainly confusing to many.

As far as challenging the Church on the false doctrine of the Trinity teaching, it's the Scriptures that challenge the Church, I'm just the messenger.

As far as me having a hallow argument for you to challenge its understandable, because I am not here to argue nor debate with you. I'm here to state scriptural facts, logical reasoning and common sense conversations based on God's Word, whether you want to accept it or not.

As far as me not liking the Catholic Church, they simply fall into the same boat as all the other faiths that promote and teach a falsehood like the Trinity.

Many people do not want to take the time and truly examine for themselves what the Bible really says concerning the relationship between God and His son, Jesus Christ, as well as the operations of God's holy spirit. So they simply accept what their minister, pastor, rabbi, preacher, pope, etc., says blindly without ever questioning something that doesnt make sense and having their own mind when it comes to the truth.

Starting a new respond for the questions that I asked in my previous or last response.

@questionWeaver: Does the Bible agree with those who teach that the Father and Son are NOT separate and distinct individuals ?

MATTHEW 26:39 RS----"Going a little farther he [Jesus Christ] fell on his face and prayed; 'MY Father, if possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as though wilt.'"

Think about this: IF the Father and the Son were not distinct individuals, such a prayer would have been meaningless. Jesus would have been praying to himself. Why would Jesus ask himself to "remove this cup from me", if he were the Father or same person? Would Jesus have had to pray that prayer in the first place if he were God?

Does the Bible teach that all who are said to be part of the Trinity are eternal, none having a beginning?

COLOSSIANS 1:15,16 RS----"HE [Jesus Christ] is the image of the invisible God, the FIRSTBORN of all creation...."

Think about this: In what sense is Jesus Christ the first-born of all creation? Trinitarians say that "first-born" here means prime, most excellence, most distinguished in relation to those who were created. If that is so, and if the Trinity Doctrine is true, why are the Father are and the holy spirit not also said to be the first-born of all creation???
The Bible only applies this expression to the Son, Jesus Christ. According to the customary meaning of "firstborn", it is indicating that Jesus is the eldest in Jehovah's family of angelic sons.

@questionWeaver: the Trinity is not a mystery in the sense that logical thinking people and reasonable individuals understand that the Trinity doesn't not make sense. So there's no mystery concerning it's falsehood.

@questionWeaver: Does the Bible teach that none of those who are said to be included in the Trinity is greater or less than another, that all are equal, that all are almighty?

MARK 13:32 RS----"OF that day or that hour NO ONE KNOWS, not even the angels in heaven, NOR THE SON, but ONLY the FATHER."
OF course that would not be the case if Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were co-equal, or one Godhead.... And if some suggest the Son was limited by his human nature from knowing what his heavenly Father knows, the question remains: Why did the Holy Spirit not know?

Again, these verses proves that there is no such thing as a three headed Godhead....

@questionWeaver: By the way, I have been using the Revised Standard version of the Bible, since you take issue with the New World Translation Bible.

MATTHEW 12:31,32 RS----"Every single sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit WILL NOT BE FORGIVEN. And whoever says a word against the Son of man [Jesus Christ] will be FORGIVEN, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will NOT BE FORGIVEN, either in this age or in the age to come."
Think about this: If the holy spirit was a person and was God, this text would flatly contradict the Trinity Doctrine, because it would mean that in some way the Holy Spirit was greater than the Son and God. Yet many believe that all three are equal in all respects.

JOHN 14:28 RS----".....for the Father is GREATER THAN I."
This verse and many, many, many more verses in the Bible proves the Trinity to be a falsehood made up in the minds of the Church Fathers of Christedom...

Seo ... long before anybody ever goes into detail arguing against something ... they need to make sure they grasp and can define the something they are contrasting with.

You have created a doctrine ... this is the seo doctrine ... not a church doctrine.

I really don't feel you have a good grasp of the mystery of the Holy Trinity ...

I understand what you would like the Holy Trinity to be ... so you can have a winning argument.

Unfortunately, Socrates beat you to it ... using Greek established deductive reasoning ... it is an impossibility to deduce that a mystery is not a unless YOU solve the mystery.

You can quote scripture after scripture ... but you need to resolve the mystery .... not just complain that some 15th century Bishops offered guidance.

The world has awaited the light into the mystery ... am still listening ... but logic remains logic.

@questionWeaver: I'm chuckling right now. A mystery that is a falsehood will never be resolved let alone figured out. If the/your Catholic Church Fathers cannot figure out the so-called "mystery" of the Trinity, why do you expect others to come up with their opinion of how to explain a three headed god? I have given scriptural that there is no such thing as the Trinity and that the Bible doesn't support imagined falsehood of men, yet you refuse to read and reason on the scriptures I've provided.

I am a logical thinking, reason seeking person, when it comes to the Trinity and my reasoning and logical mind tells that trying to explain the Trinity as being part of the Bible is futile. Its like trying to force a star block into a rectangular block, NO CAN DO, it won't fit....It's been interesting talking with you, but I see that our conversation has come to end. Take care.😐

Seo ... I part with no regrets ... you obviously do not like churches formed prior to 1503 AD ... so no loss there.

I did have a much better impression of the post 1503 denomination you speak from.

Rhetoric is not logic ... never was ... never will be.

Those that push rhetoric, in the guise of logic, tarnish their own associations.

I am glad, in your mind, you have identified evil ... and have emerged safe. ... we should all have peace within our own thoughts.

You have not come within even the shadow of a discussion of the Holy Trinity. Which does amaze me ... but, compliments for the energy you put into it ...

You have provided an interesting thought process, which I will share.

Peace of the Lord