Why can Pharaoh's wizards perform the same miracles that Moses can? [Spirituality & Religion]

@Carazaa

So why did god allow satan to allow pharaoh's magicians to do the same miracles?

@Pikachu Why does God do anything? He works things out for good, that I am sure of, but he owes us no explanations how he works out his plan, or why he does this or that. Our job is to trust him and have faith, not to question him. That is a sin.

@Carazaa

So the answer is "because". Well that's just not satisfying for me.

@Pikachu Why is this important to you?

@Carazaa

I'm reading the bible. I'm giving it an honest go. An honest reading demands critical thinking, not just blind acceptance.

@Pikachu I disagree, An honest reading deserves looking at it as is not questioning everything asking why this and why that. That is not taking the book as is. God tells us that he does things for "good". You don't believe it. You question his motives so you aren't understanding the book from Gods view which is necessary to understand God.

@Pikachu The Bible is a love letter to humanity. Pretend you get a love letter from your Dad. He shares things he did because he loves you. To question his motives is insulting to the writer. Do you see that?

@Carazaa

[quote] An honest reading deserves looking at it as is not questioning everything asking why this and why that.[/quote]

If i told you to read the quran and give it an honest try to see if that was the true path to god, would you just accept it at face value or would you examine and question it?
Exactly.

@Carazaa
[quote]The Bible is a love letter to humanity.[/quote]

Maybe. Or maybe it's just the cultural and religious writings of men.
Imagine you got a love letter from a man you'd never met claiming to be your father. Would it be insulting to question it?

@Pikachu With your attitude about the Bible why even read it, I am not sure you will get anything out of it if you don't trust what it says honestly.

@Pikachu If I got a letter from someone saying they are my Dad, I would give them the benefit of the doubt. I am a very trusting person and I don't assume ulterior motives. I had a loving Dad who never lied, and was in my corner.

@Carazaa

I don't understand your criticism.
I can't turn off rational critical thinking. That's me. And presumably god would know that lol.

I'm reading the bible to see if it speaks to me. I don't know why you think that should mean that i accept it uncritically. Would you accept the quran uncritically?

I'm not like you, carazaa. I'm not [i]starting[/i] from a position of faith. I'm reading the bible to be convinced or not.

@Carazaa

[quote] If I got a letter from someone saying they are my Dad, I would give them the benefit of the doubt[/quote]

lol well we're different people then. Shocker😉

@Pikachu I think you have trust issues, honestly. If God says he loves us, then I believe it. Why would he lie. Why would he make the sunshine and the moon and the blue sky and the green grass and give you a loving mate, and give us pets, and then lie. No I have no trust issues. If someone says I love you I believe them. You question that which is curious!

@Carazaa

[quote]I think you have trust issues,[/quote]

lol seriously? You think if i would question someone i've never met claiming to be my father or love me that i have trust issues?
I think in this case that you are in the minority of people who would accept that uncritically.

[quote] If God says he loves us, then I believe it. Why would he lie. Why would he make the sunshine and the moon and the blue sky and the green grass and give you a loving mate, and give us pets, and then lie. [/quote]

Again, i am not beginning from a position of faith. I don't believe god did any of that. I don't believe god is real, much less that he loves me.
I'm reading the bible to be convinced or not.

I'm enjoying reading the bible but i'm not going to stop questioning things i find problematic.I can't. I can't shut off my critical thinking nor would i want to if i could.
If i'm supposed to believe that this is the message of a loving, moral being then i need to address issues which seem to me to contradict that image.

@Pikachu I understand that but it is not intended to be read like that. If I wrote you a letter I would be upset if you did not believe what I wrote was true, and I had other motives than what I shared. But ok you can read it critically, but I hope you come away with a deeper understanding of God.

@Pikachu The first time I read the Bible when I was a child, I also read it critically, but I always tried to really understand God and believed what he was saying. I never thought that he was not giving me a personal message, that it was some sort of a scam, like someone writing to "pretend" they are God. I was changed completely because I came away with a deeper understanding of who God really is because I really listened to the message God wanted me to have from each story. I believe that is the critical thinking God wants us to have when reading. A search for Gods heart.

@Carazaa

I hope you understand that when i say "critical thinking" i don't mean that i'm looking to criticize what i'm reading. It just means that i am analyzing the subject matter objectively rather than accepting it at face value.

I am who i am. I can't just choose to believe it. I can't just ignore things that i find morally repugnant.
All i can do is read through it and try to see if i can find what believers find in it.

@Pikachu Okydoky...I just hope and pray that you understand God better after reading it and not misunderstand him. That would be a shame. I want you to get a lot out of reading.

@Carazaa

We'll see🙂

@Pikachu You say you are the way you are ,well no not quite. We can control our mind much more than we think we can. You can choose to think about anything you want. Your mind doesn't control you. You control your mind. I can choose to think negative thoughts or positive. I choose positive. If something negative pops up I change it to something positive. it takes practice but it can be done.

@Carazaa

If you read the quran, would you be able to turn off the part of your brain that is questioning it?

Yes or no?

@PikachuI have, and I haven't heard God speak there, or a loving message from him directly. Like Jesus, and he didn't die to take away my sins. It appear to be a works gospel where we have to do things to earn points for heaven. Christianity is the only religion is the world where God did all the work because he loves us, all we have to do is love him and love people regardless how they treat us.

@Carazaa

Oh, so you didn't accept it at face value? You questioned it, challenged it and when it didn't speak to you, you rejected it.

Now you understand where i'm coming from😉

@Pikachu No, because God isnt speaking there. I know it sounds like I favor the Bible, and I do, because it is different than any other book in the World. Every religion in the entire world a works gospel except Christianity.Jesus did it all,when he died he said, it is finished, and then after returning to his kingdom, heaven, sat down next to the Father because the work was done. We cant add to it. Allah didnt pay for my sins, I have to pay for my own sins. Allah is not loving.