You don't CHOOSE to be an atheist any more than you CHOOSE that you don't believe in Santa Claus [Spirituality & Religion]

@gregloa Being a criminal or a jackass is a choice because it's a behavioral thing. You can choose to steal shit or not to steal shit, or to kill or not kill. That's completely different from holding certain beliefs.

@gregloa

Ok...

lol let's try to get this back on track.

Allow me to prove to you that belief is not a choice:

You, gregola, decide right now that you believe that Santa Claus is real.
Decide that you do in fact there is a fat man who flies around the world in a magic sleigh and delivers presents to all the children of the world.

When you fail to be able to make this choice, you will recognize that in fact belief is NOT a choice.

@BlueVeins

Well said. Behaviour is a choice. Belief is not.

@Pikachu so you want me to choose to believe in Santa. That’s absurd. You think I don’t choose to be a Christian? If I behave in some way then it’s my choice but if I believe in something then it’s not my choice. Ok I don’t “believe” you. And brother I definitely choose not too. 😂🤣😅😆 wow

@gregloa

[quote]so you want me to choose to believe in Santa.[/quote]

Yes.
I want you to [i]choose[/i] to believe that santa is real so that you can prove to yourself that belief is not a choice. In spite of the evidence to the contrary, i'm challenging you to decide that you do in fact belief.

You continue to express incredulity that belief is not a choice.
so if belief is a choice then choose that you believe santa is real.

If you can't then you necessarily accept that i am correct in the assessment that belief is NOT a choice.

Go on then.

I CHOOSE not to believe in Santa a long time ago. Just as you choose not to believe in God. We all do what we choose to do. If anyone believes in anything at some point they had to choose to do so. Of this there is absolutely no doubt to any sane person. Except those who are attempting to justify thereby relieving themselves from guilt or intention of their own stupidity or wishful thinking. By the way your assessment I absolutely do not accept.

@gregloa

[quote]I CHOOSE not to believe in Santa a long time ago[/quote]

If that's true then you can CHOOSE that you do believe in Santa.
Do so now.
If you cannot do that (and i think you agree that you cannot) then you have demonstrated that belief is not a choice.

It seems to me you are attempting to deflect this simple truth.

@Pikachu who are you to insist that I choose or believe in something. I insist that you believe in God. You cannot choose because you must believe. Do so now. If you cannot then you must agree that you must choose to do so. Pretty safe to say that’s not going to happen. You can choose not to be atheist. I choose to believe in God. I choose not to be an atheist. I choose not to believe in Santa. Seems to me that you are attempting to deflect the simple truth of choice and belief.

@gregloa

[quote] who are you to insist that I choose or believe in something[/quote]

It's actually you who is proving this yourself.

You, gregola, CANNOT choose that you believe in santa. Even if you want to, you simply can't decide that you think santa is real.

[quote] I insist that you believe in God.[/quote]

Are you really missing the point here?
This is not about demanding that you or i believe something.
This is a TEST, gregola. A test that you can perform for yourself.
It's a TEST to see if you can CHOOSE to believe that which you do not believe.

I'm not demanding that you believe in santa, i'm challenging you to TEST the notion that belief in a thing is a choice by making the opposite choice.
Do you follow? You with me?

So since you cannot choose that you believe in santa, since you acknowledge that, THAT is not a choice, what makes you think that belief or lack of belief in a god is a choice?

@Pikachu makes no difference whatsoever choose, believe same thing. I choose to believe in Santa when I was a young boy until I discovered otherwise when I got older. Now I choose not to believe in Santa. Big deal there’s no difference. What makes you think that my belief or lack of belief in God isn’t my choice.

@gregloa

[quote]I choose to believe in Santa when I was a young boy until I discovered otherwise when I got older.[/quote]

I think you're revealing the flaw in your argument right there:

You "chose" to believe in santa until the evidence convinced you that he was not real.

Do you see how that is a contradictory statement?
You didn't choose not to believe in santa, you became [i]convinced[/i] based on evidence that he wasn't real.

I don't know why you're being so evasive about this.
Just do the exercise and tell me how it goes and we'll move on from there.
Decide that RIGHT NOW, you believe that santa is real.
Report your findings.

@Pikachu your arguments are always the same. You simply need absolute proof that God exist. That’s what this and all of your so called challenges are about. Because you cannot see absolute proof you refuse to entertain the very idea of a living God. There is no other reason. What you are really saying here is a Christian is a fool. Am I right? I’m right!

@gregloa


[quote] Am I right?[/quote]

lol of course you're not right.
But it's not because you believe there's a god. It's because you completely fail to understand, acknowledge or address the argument i am actually making here. And that's because you know that my position on belief is correct but you're too concerned with winning to admit it.

I am not making an argument for god in this thread.
I have proved to you that belief is not a choice. You proved that to yourself.
YOU, gregola CANNOT choose to believe that which you do not believe.
Your intellectual dishonesty in refusing to admit this fact does nothing to disguise its veracity.

Do try to pay attention next time and if you can, just try to be a [i]little[/i] less dishonest.