How can anyone think that this beautiful world isn't created by God? [Spirituality & Religion]

@Pikachu
Crystals are part of Gods beauty, like pearls. To me it is evidence of Gods order in nature.
God has told us that man knows in his heart there is a God from looking at the beauty of the world. He says man is without excuse!

@Carazaa That's the truth, sister.

@Carazaa



Yes. I covered this.
You can only exclude examples of order without apparent guidance by FIRST ASSUMING THAT THERE WAS GUIDANCE.
That is a logical fallacy known as begging the question. You're assuming that your premise is correct, not supporting it.
You take crystals as an example of god's design without giving evidence for it when it can just as easily be taken as an example of order without guidance.

You tell me that you hold logic in high standing. I'm simply pointing out where you are failing to properly apply it.

And could you please address the last half of my post?

I did address the second half. The order is evidence of a creator, and the love to please us because of the beauty. If the world exploded in a big bang by accident then there wouldn't be such order. Life is fragile the perfect conditions have to be here for us, animals, and plants. It can't be an accident. The statistical chances of that is just not possible. You can't have an explosive bang and there is beauty, no. That is just logically impossible. You have listened to atheists that have come up with logical explanations for their erroneous conclusions. You are highly influenced by bad logic, in my opinion. Most scientists know there must be a creator. It is self evident because of the complexity and order. For some reason, you have a need to prove there is no God. Why? I care about you and I pray you will see Gods handiwork in the world, listen to his love stories in the Bible, and give your life to Jesus.

@Carazaa

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Then could you do so more explicitly please?
Why is the fact that we find things beautiful evidence that a god created them?
Why is the fact that we find certain foods good evidence that a god created them?


How do you know? A crystalline structure can be highly ordered without guidance because of the way elements and molecules naturally arrange themselves. Sand always falls to a certain gradient depending on the slope. Objects can fall into stable orbits simply by being in proximity to a body of sufficient mass.
What's to say that the order we find is not just an unavoidable product of how energy and matter naturally interact?
See carazaa, what you have here is a declaration of faith.
That's fine, just don't pretend that it is illogical for someone to not accept that faith claim.


I think you might be surprised at what kind of conditions life can survive and thrive in.
But yes, conditions are right for life (as we know it) here on earth.
Here's the problem though, carazaa. That does not mean you get to make the leap that it was designed for that purpose.
Think about it. Are conditions perfectly created for life to exist....or do the conditions appear perfect for life on earth because the life on earth developed and evolved under those conditions?
Remember the puddle who finds himself in a hole that fits him so perfectly? Was the hole made for the puddle or does the puddle simply conform to the available space?
Exactly.
Again, you'd have to make a faith claim to say that it MUST have been god.
Personally, i'm not surprised to find that we live on a planet where it is possible for us to live.


Here's the problem with the statistical argument: It's only valid if we first assume that humans and life as we know it were an end point or the only possible option for life.
That's an illogical belief.
Just because life exists as it does right now does not mean it HAD to exist this way or that it is the only way.


In my opinion, you take faith claims and present them as logic.
I'm not here to disprove god. I'm here to make sure logic is being fairly applied.
I'm here to expose weak arguments and supply stronger ones.
After all, i may be able to logically refute any argument you make but that won't prove that a god doesn't exist or damage your faith that one does.

@Pikachu
Beauty doesn't come by accident nor good food. God created beauty as artists create their arts. God created good food like a master chef creates his/her dishes.


Yahweh, the giver of life, wants to see us thrive.


What she means is that it's impossible for all this to come about by accident because of such great detail and in prefect order. No accident, no random chance, or natural selection could produce such detail and order with great precision. Only an Intelligent Designer can.


What I know to be true is that God's logic is not our logic and His reasoning is not our reasoning. His logic is higher than ours and His reasoning higher than ours. After all, He's the Author of both.

@GodSpeed63

That's certainly your opinion and you're welcome to it.

@GodSpeed63 Yes, very true! Thank you! Praise God He loves us! Otherwise we would have been dead a long time ago, well we wouldn't even be here!

@GodSpeed63


That's your opinion but i bet you can't prove it.


You've just repeated her mistake in different words.
You use words like precision which presupposes a goal, a predetermined end.
You have not not validated this presupposition.

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lol well we can agree on that much at least. God's logic does not appear to actually follow any recognizable logic nor does his reason seem identifiably reasonable.

@Pikachu Beauty and taste are very individual. There are things that I find beautiful that others don't and the opposite also applies. Similarly, there are foods that I find delicious and others consider abhorrent. Why the difference if it is all a product of God? The only answer I can think of is that it is a product of evolution, not creation.

@Bushranger

This is quite true. Beauty and taste are entirely subjective measures.

For instance, many people find a sunny day to be beautiful while i find clouds, wind and rain to be beautiful.

@Pikachu I'm the only person I know who thinks kurawongs are beautiful. My wife hates oysters, but I like them. Way too much variability to be created.

@Bushranger You don't enjoy nature, sunsets, sunlight, moonlight, kissing, these are for our enjoyment from a loving God. The variety of foods are from a loving God who really is wanting to please us!

@Carazaa But I do enjoy those things, although I admit to preferring sunsets as I'm not that fond of getting up early 😁. You don't have to be a Christian to enjoy beauty, food and love.

@Pikachu The watch analogy is a very good analogy. It would be absurd to say that any watch made itself, or came about by accident, or by a big bang. And it is equally absurd to say, even more absurd to say that this whole universe with all its beauty did not have a maker. And what a maker, a loving one who visited us. and has made a way for us to live with him forever in a perfect world in heaven.

@Carazaa

The watch analogy or watchmaker analogy is self-refuting because it requires that one contrast the watch against nature and say that it must have been designed.
Then you turn around and say nature must have been designed.

It's logically flawed.



Why?

Let's just take one example. Crystals: beautiful and ordered.

Explain why that must evidence of a designer rather than evidence that natural forces act according to their properties.

I am saying that natural forces made crystals, but who made those forces? I don't think any beautiful things are by happenstance. God made the elements, and the temperatures, and the conditions.

@Carazaa


Maybe no one.
All i'm trying to do here is get you to realize that your beliefs aren't so much a necessity of logic as they are based upon your faith.

So i think that you can't explain why the ordered beauty of crystals must be evidence of design, you juts believe that it is.
Fair?

@PikachuNo one? I believe that God made the forces because the world would not exist without a creator just looking at it. And When I also read that God said that He made it. I believe it, you don't and that is your choice! I do enjoy talking to you very much. We can agree to disagree, its ok. I still like you. Maybe you don/t like people who have other views but I am not like that 🙂

@Carazaa

Exactly. You believe that.

I like you just fine, carazaa. You're good-natured and genuine and i certainly don't dislike you for having different beliefs than i do.
Don't mistake my commitment to breaking down what i perceive to be flawed arguments as evidence that i don't like you.
I'm not taking it personally and i hope you won't either.

@Pikachu My flawed arguments? What! its late there is Quebec right? we'll solve all these questions tomorrow I am sure!😘

@Carazaa


That's how they appear to me.
Goodnight then🙂

@Carazaa
Be careful with this one, Carazaa. All he knows how to do is ridicule, mock, and act worse than a jackass. He may treat you different, I don't know. All I know about him is that he likes to build himself up by putting you down. So, just be careful of him, okay?

@GodSpeed63

Thank you, I appreciate that!

1. I can handle it because in the end God said He made the world in Genesis, and in John 1, and they haven't come close to matching that.

2. We are here because God told us to go into all the world and tell them the hope that is in our heart. We do it because we care. Jesus said we will have tribulation, but He'll help us!

@Carazaa
Amen, sister, amen. Thank you for your encouragement.