Confused about the lord.. [Spirituality & Religion]

Excellent! @room101

@room101
It calls for Faith in a Living Loving God that sent his Son Jesus for our salvation.

@Pfuzylogic "It calls for.........", what is IT in this context?

Faith

@room101
The Holy Spirit enters those that are saved through Jesus.

@Pfuzylogic So "IT" is the Holy Spirit? Is that what you mean?

@room101
The Holy Spirit is not an “it”.

Mmmmm. Faith is within the believer in my opinion. @room101

@Pfuzylogic You're the one who used the pronoun, not me. I asked you what you were referring to. Still waiting for a cohesive answer.

@jackjjackson I agree entirely. We can gain faith, we can lose faith. But we cannot be forced or persuaded to have faith.

It's either there or it isn't.

@room101
I am glad you woke up sleepy!
What part of the world are you from. It has been 12 hours.

Now what are you demanding from me?
You seem clueless about anything with the Christian Religon.


Are you even saved ?

You can’t lose Faith either.

If you are asking if I have faith the answer is yes. @room101

@jackjjackson No, I wasn't asking anything. Just giving my tuppence worth on faith.

@Pfuzylogic Oh I'm so sorry that I don't hop to it with my replies. I actually have a life outside of SW.

Of course one can lose faith. It happens to people all the time. You must have led a very sheltered life to not know this.

Have I been saved? From what?

I live in the UK. I'm a Greek Orthodox Christian born and bred.

@room101
I thought the idea of the Holy Spirit might confuse you. I find it ironic that you claim an expertise in my Faith and get lost so quickly in some truths of Christianity.

@jackjjackson True! God gives all a measure of faith, but you can ask Him to give you (anyone) more. A Christian, that is.

I stumbled across this post this morning and as much as I don't wish to interject, I feel that I do need to ask: Pfuzylogic and LadyGrace? What exactly are you quibbling on about? I'm confused.

I think Roomie gave a great comment. Trusting oneself, in the basics of morality(right and wrong), and trusting your faith (which is a gift from God) IS good advice. You may not agree with it being the "right sort of advice", because his opinion may be too diverse for your sect of Christianity and understanding to allow. But because he doesn't agree with you doesn't make it bad advice, or make him wrong, or his message wrong, or lost, or make him not a part of christianity or whatever.

How Prideful to try to start something here because they aren't the same "spiritually" as you. I can't help but wonder if St. Paul would be disappointed in how you are handling a little diversity-Like he sometimes was with the Corinthian Church.

You seem to put great certaintude and stock in the bible being God's inerrant word. But being a dick doesn't mean you are using Christian wisdom (something Paul talks extensively about as well as how to deal with other christians who believe differently). Perhaps I can urge you to reread Paul's sections of the bible then. And then come back to talk.

The Early Church naturally had its quibbles about things too. Perhaps take a leaf out of Paul's books for solutions to this instead of continuing such unreasonable quibbling?

@Scribbles Talk about [b]arrogance[/b]! Jesus said that unless one has been born-again, naturally they wouldn’t understand the things of the spirit. The Bible says so. I’m not a prude, a know it all, or so straight-laced, I find everything everyone does, a SIN, but I do know what God says in His Word, and follow it....and Jesus said, not to trust in fallible man, as some will give wrong advice. That’s not prideful, that’s God given common sense. Yes, I defend what I believe and more people should have a backbone and stand up for what they believe. What you call quibbling or arguing, I call getting God’s Word straight. If you’re going to interject, know what God’s Word says on the subject at hand, as it is important what HE says on the matter, not man. Jesus said if what someone tells you, doesn’t match up with His Word, don’t believe it! He is the final authority, and there’s nothing wrong with challenging those who are teaching falsely and not according to God’s Word. SweetSeptember deserves to hear God’s Truths, and there’s nothing prideful about that, Scribbles. God said to RIGHTLY divide the Word of God, and study to show thyself approved. You falsely judge me to be a know it all. Think what you want. It’s God who gives those who want to know Him, knowledge. Only someone foolish would think themselves smarter and wiser than God. Jesus told His Disciples to spread the Good News. I’m not a prideful person at all, but I AM proud of God and all He has done for me. I’m not ashamed of knowing or serving God, after all He’s done for me.

As a studier of God’s Word, I know sound advice when I hear it, and also realize how Satan operates with trying to trip people up and confuse them, leading them down the wrong path, through false advice. When someone comes along and gives someone searching for Christ, or struggling with faith, bad advice, you better believe I’m going to call them out, and I make no apologies about it. Room101 doesn’t know his bible, and was giving this lady bad advice. I wasn’t going to let him lead this young lady down the wrong path. His advice was contrary to God’s Word.

The Word is clear. And it’s not what I say that counts, but what [u]God[/u] says, that matters, and Room101 was teaching her things that are NOT in God’s Word, so naturally I interjected. And if you call yourself knowledgeable and suggest that you’re a Christian, or that you know God’s Word, you wouldn’t go around calling people a [b]d**k[/b], and also know that though one may [u]claim[/u] to be a Christian, that doesn’t mean they are. Even Satan believes, but he is not going to heaven.

Some belong to a cult or a church that [b]teaches[/b] false doctrine. If you weren’t so busy criticizing me, you’d know those are many in this society. If room101 was a follower of Christ, who is [i]knowledgeable[/i] about God’s Word at all, he would [i]never[/i] tell someone “you don’t have to trust in God. Just trust in yourself”. That’s nowhere even close to what Jesus said in His Word, on how to find Him. JESUS said, “There’s a way that SEEMS right to man, but the end thereof, is DEATH.” (Speaking of spiritual death.) And yes, let’s talk about Paul.

You better believe I trust God’s Word to be His inerrant Word. It’s not only important to know what you believe, but why you believe it! If you’re making fun of God’s Holy Word, then you’re actually calling God a liar, because His Word is definitely inerrant, and given careful study, you’d see that. But you prefer to pick and choose which parts of the Bible you’ll believe, and do things your way, not God’s Way. It doesn’t work that way. It’s all or none. God is not a liar, nor author of confusion. Satan is.

@room101 [quote]Second, trusting the Lord. There is nothing to trust! Let me explain. Unless God or Jesus Christ or some other divine being is coming to you and asking to do x, y or z; unless God or Jesus Christ or some other divine being is coming to you and telling you to live your life like this or that, then you are not being asked to trust in anything. You have your conscience. You know right from wrong. You know how to be kind and respectful and compassionate. So really, it's only yourself that you have to trust.[/quote]

The Holy Spirit is the one who not only comes to us, but calls us out to follow Christ. He works through our conscience, and that’s why He gave us one. Our conscience was given by God, so we could be aware of our sinful condition, and thereby search out God, so our sins could be forgiven, and our spirit brought to fellowship with our Maker, which gives peace, love, and joy to our own spirit.

Our conscience was given so we would know right from wrong...so in our confusion about life, we would know to search out and find Christ, which our conscience tells us is the truth our spirit longs for. The Holy Spirit is speaking to this young lady’s heart right now. That’s why she’s searching to find the Truth....God...and how to do things His way. The very best source she could choose is God’s Word, not fallible man’s. God has all the answers, for all of our questions. Not man. That’s why I direct people to the source of Truth....God’s Word.

@room101 [quote]Third, let Him into my life. If you believe in God and trust in yourself, in your ability to live a good life, then you've already let Him into your life.[/quote]

Then why does God say in His Word, there is NONE good; that ALL have gone astray and are already lost? In other words, we can never be so prideful as to think we have no sin, or that we could ever meet God’s holy standards for living a sinless life. Jesus is not condemning us, he is condemning sin. We cannot as human beings, abolish/erase our own sins. And that’s why we need Jesus. He is sinless and therefore, the only one [b]worthy [/b] enough to pay for our sins. He IS the spotless Lamb, who takes away the sins of the world. Rely on yourself instead of Christ, and one will never make it to heaven. It’s in God’s Word. And that’s why I disagree with what you’re saying to SweetSeptember. You are telling her things contrary to God’s Word. It’s not about ME. It’s what God says, that counts, and your words to her, contradict God’s.

[quote]In this world of science and rationality and the seemingly constant ridicule by atheists and the despicable antics of so many "religious" folks, it can be really hard to simply believe.[/quote]

There’s nothing hard about believing or trusting. Especially when it comes to God. We trust people everyday, in one way or another. To be our friend, to bring back a tool they’ve borrowed, that the bank will be open so we can cash our checks, that butcher to give us our monies worth, even the chairs we sit in, to hold us up. Trusting Jesus is no harder. In fact, it’s even easier, because at least we know God is no liar and keeps His promise to save us from the penalty of sin. He proved that on the cross. Jesus did the hard part, of dying to cover our sin debt. All He asks US to do, is Believe!

It’s not about man-made philosophy, better known as “religion”. It’s about a personal [b]relationship[/b] with God. Religion did not die on the cross for our sins. Jesus did.

@room101

@Scribbles
This is the first time that I have ever seen you demeaning in a response.
Is there a reason why?

@LadyGrace

Ok, so your single Paul quote?

1. Roomie's not preaching...he's just sharing his opinion.

2. His message is not about teaching some other gospel.
He's not diminishing God. He's sharing his opinion about also trusting yourself. That's not an inherently bad thing. Espeically if you are the one saying everything is a sin. I don't get it.

So I don't know why your quote even applies here.

You say you are getting God's word straight. What makes you the authority when you say all men are falible. How do you know your interpretation of the Bible is the "straight way". I think that is the ultimate arrogance. Because there is not. Just fallible interpretations. Feel free to defend your beliefs, but why are you feeling attacked even before I responded? Why are you feeling like someone will be lead away by one opinion? The author of this story hasn't even responded?

When it comes to the Bible you can choose to believe it's infallible. But in interpretation, People don't know exactly for sure. Thus one has to trust in their faith and themselves and ability to reason about it all. That doesn't mean that process will produce some accurssed sinner who rejects everything you hold dear and holy nor some all-knowing new god-like church leader . It means being thoughtful and educating oneself.

@ Pfuzy:
I dislike attacks on someone's spiritual views. Debates are ok. Arguing is ok. Quarreling is not ok. The comments I saw as most bickering over what is Christian or not....brought to mind What I've learned about Paul and the Early church. Mostly because I figured you'd rather listen to Paul's thoughts than mine.

The book of Acts doesn't nearly go into how chaotic the Early church was...but basically every apostle and disciple REASONED with others in the synagogues and public places and meeting places and all over. They spoke from experience and the words of Jesus and sometimes pointed to words recorded by Moses and Abraham and other prophets. (They didn't rely on a bible) and some really respected the Torah and wanted strict policies and other groups weren't overly strict. They were never wholly United. Thus Paul's letterwriting to help congregations and guide them . Now, yeah... Paul did say that about sharing a different gospel message, but if I remember right...that was about another religious faction that was directly trying to lead people away- that is not happening here.

Paul also says: If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.

It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.

Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.

It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

For we know in part and we prophesy in part,
but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.

When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.

Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love

Paul often encouraged others to take a tolerant view and act in Faith, hope and love towards others. Paul regularly REASONED with others. He didn't reply on a Bible. He shared the words and actions of Jesus and his message to us and his experiences. And followed Torah law too, as was the custom for Jews at the time.

in any case, shouldn't one argue with faith hope and love in mind for others even if you disagree and debate?

I did not intend to be demeaning at all so I am sorry for that, but I did mean to rebuke the manner in which you are acting towards another person's opinion. If I am wrong to do so, and you meant well towards Roomie rather then attack, then perhaps you could explain that to me better?

Because would you let someone say the same thing to yourself that you have towards Roomie all because of interpretation differences?

I'm just confused otherwise

@Scribbles
The crux of the matter is whether one can lose their Faith.
That is an important matter of understanding about, what being saved by the death on the cross means.
The Holy Spirit is God.
The Holy Spirit enters into the body of a believer once they confess that Jesus is their Savior from sin.
You do not lose salvation.
That isn’t quibbling but a very important aspect to the very nature of what it means to be reconciled towards God.

@Scribbles Your accusations are unfounded....period. So is your reasoning. I wasn't arguing with him. I was discussing. I have given Room101 my reasons for disagreeing, on all points. That's enough. For your information, she DID answer me. In a private message. See, you jump to conclusions, as well.

@LadyGrace Am I supposed to assume evidence that I can't see? 😂

I don't have a problem with what you believe or you talking about and I'm glad the author respects you and found someone to talk to about this topic that obviously bothers her. And that you had the chance to address your concerns privately.

Alright, I respect that you say you are having a discussion. It just really didn't look like a discussion to me at all. If that is all then I'm perfectly happy, and I'll see myself out. I just ask...please don't act like a you know what- no matter how invested you are in your beliefs or the opinion of another. It's no excuse. that goes to anybody out there in the world...it's a huge pet peeves of mine. I'm sorry you think that is unchristian of me to say dick, but I'll admit that I'm not a very good Christian in the terms of any fundamental Christian denomination. I'm ok with that. I respect that you think otherwise

@pfuzy: I'm always up for talking about beliefs as well. And perhaps because I don't understand entirely why or how someone can't lose faith.

In general, I don't always think one person has to be wrong and the other right. but I tend to like to do any religion discussions over pm so I don't hijack a post more then I already have.

My apologies to Roomie and Sweet September for hijacking this already :(