Is it logically possible that the Bible is not true with all the fulfilled prophesies? [Spirituality & Religion]

@Pikachu Thank you for answering my post! I think it's a first! So I am celebrating. Well, so you just think that the Bible passage above then is just a coincidence? Or how do you explain what's happening with Damascus, and Syria?

@Carazaa


No problem!😉👍


Help me out.

Tell me in basic terms what you think the prophecy said and how that prophecy is fulfilled.

@Pikachu Oh no, here we go with your answering a question with a question. Ok, to me when the Bible says Damascus will be a ruinous heap that is prophesy fulfilled. Have you looked at any pics of Damascus lately? And there are numerous thousands of other prophesies. I posted a list a few months ago to someone here.

@Carazaa

I find questions to be a useful way to think through ideas.

So tell me.
Should it be considered a supernatural prediction that a region that has seen conflict for centuries is currently in a state of war torn destruction?

Has Isaiah just been fulfilled now in 2019 or was it fulfilled back in 2011? Or was it fulfilled in 700 some odd BC?

You see what i'm saying here?

@PikachuHow many cities are ruinous heaps, really now?

When the Syrians attacked Gods people in the Bible, God told them they will regret it, but he gives them chance, after chance, to repent. When His people, the Hebrew Jews, left God to serve other gods. God gave them chance after chance to come back to Him, and when the Jewish leaders mocked Jesus, and he was crucified, Jesus said that they would no more have a land of their own after 70 years of his death and be scattered and hated, but will get their own land back again in the last days.

After 70 years of the crucifixion the Jews were scattered all over the world. How many countries have its citizens without a homeland for 2000 years but not lose their beautiful customs and identity, and then get their own land. It happened in 1948. Coincidence?

@Carazaa

Um...many. And many, many more over the course of the years.
You didn't answer my questions. Just give me an honest answer. You're not admitting to anything or agreeing that i'm right. Just answer truthfully.

[quote]Jesus said that they would no more have a land of their own after 70 years of his death [/quote]

Which prophecy is that? Just looking for a verse.

@Pikachu Ok I'll have to get back to you, have to go for a little hike before dark. 🏃

🏃‍♀️@Pikachu oops wrong picture ha ha

Pikachu ] Jesus summaries here the destruction of the land as well as the scattering and the Jews to all nations, as he said in Luke 21

"When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. 23 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to[i] all the nations[/i]. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. Luke 21: 20-24

Jerusalem's destruction happened 70 years after his birth, and 40 years after His death. 1 million Jews were killed in Jerusalems destruction then, but was also predicted in many other passages in Isaiah, Acts, Mark, Daniel, Ezekiel thousands years before. I'll pase a prophesy to his birth writen

@Carazaa

Well but where does jesus say that 70 (or 40?) years after his death they would lose their land?
What about failed prophecies? Do they count against the bible?

And i am still hoping you'll answer my question.
I'll repost it here for your convenience:

Should it be considered a supernatural prediction that a region that has seen conflict for centuries is currently in a state of war torn destruction?

Has Isaiah just been fulfilled now in 2019 or was it fulfilled back in 2011? Or was it fulfilled in 700 some odd BC?

@Pikachu And my answer was that this land has had a few hits, but God is good and gives them many chances like he does all of us. 22 million Syrians have been affected, 13 million have been given humanitarian aid since 2016. The Swedish church, me too, have given aid to them monthly with water and food at their borders.

There are no failed prophesies. You know when we study the Bible, it is hours every week and the accumulative meaning of all the scripture is amazing. Not just one verse here or there. When you write a book you can't just be quoted one sentence and get the gist of the book. That's why I don't like people pasting a sentence out of context and asking me about it. That's not good. It is important I think to take the entire passage and debate that.

There are so many dates in the Bible and scholars are constantly finding new prophesy fulfillments. You can look them up too, but any skeptic can always say its a coincidence. But I guarantee you that the Bible can reveal truth if you want and not if you look for errors. God says himself that he reveals truth to those with faith, and he blinds those who don't have any faith. The Bible is a mystery puzzle, for the faithful. It is intended that way. We have to come to Him like a child. I will look for more specific evidence and prophesies for you!

@Pikachu I can't find the verse with the specific "70" even though I came across a prophesy of the year Jerusalem fell when I was reading a few months ago. It is probably in the old testament. But in Luke Jesus told the Jews they would be scattered all over the world. And I can't find the specific date of his birth either ha ha that I gave another person a while ago. You see I read my Bible to commune with God, I don't even make notations, so I am terrible at recalling what I've read, but here is a good summary of more prophesies by Allen Atzbi



Allen Atzbi
Allen Atzbi

General Manager, Living Waters


You might be surprised to learn that consistently when the gospel went out in the book of Acts, messianic prophecies were shared alongside it. The apostles felt it so important to mention, that they were constantly used.

Some calculate there to be over 300 messianic prophecies in the Hebrew Scriptures (the Old Testament). They are of different sorts. Some are clearly predictive. Some have dual meanings: one historical and another typological (a parallel, pattern, or metaphor of what Jesus would do, but not overtly predictive).

1. The prophecies persuade people to believe.

Paul “explained and solemnly testified of the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus from both the Law of Moses and the Prophets, from morning till evening. And some were persuaded by the things which were spoken” (Acts 28:23-25). The prophecies offer supernatural evidence that Jesus is the promised Savior of the world who can forgive sins.

The Bereans served as posterchildren for the effects of fulfilled prophecy:


“These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so. Therefore many of them believed, and also not a few of the Greeks, prominent women as well as men.” (Acts 17:11,12)

Jew and Greek turned to Christ because of studying the Scriptures; they weren’t studying the walls of Jericho falling or Naaman dipping in the Jordan, they were studying the many messianic passages. These ancient predictions alone could identify the Savior of the world, which God used to bring them and many others to faith.

“The scientific probability that any one person could fulfill just eight specific prophecies is 1 in 10 to the 17th power.”

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In Luke 24:32, after the road to Emmaus encounter, the disciples said: “Did not our heart burn within us while He talked with us on the road, and while He opened the Scriptures to us?” God touches hearts and opens eyes to His Son through the prophecies. The intellect plays an important role in salvation; repeatedly we hear of people being persuaded from the Scriptures and following Christ. Acts 17:2-4 says Paul “reasoned with them from the Scriptures, explaining and demonstrating that the Christ had to suffer and rise again from the dead…And some of them were persuaded.” In a book that is expressly written “so that you may believe” (Jn. 19:35), John quotes fulfilled messianic prophecy as he describes Jesus’ crucifixion (Jn. 19:36,37), as well as at the empty tomb (Jn. 20:9); he also includes multiple prophecies interlaced throughout his book, which is the pattern found in all of the Gospels. Paul ends witnessing to King Agrippa with his silver-bullet: “Do you believe the prophets? I know you believe” (Acts 26:27).

The astounding mathematical impossibility of someone fulfilling these prophecies is mind-blowing (see our booklet, “Scientific Facts in the Bible” for more). The scientific probability that any one person could fulfill just eight specific prophecies is 1 in 10 to the 17th power. If we took that number of silver dollars (100,000,000,000,000,000), drew a black X on only one, and laid them over the state of Texas, they would cover the entire state two feet deep. Now blindfold a man and tell him to travel as far as he wishes and then pick up only one silver dollar, and it must be the marked one. What chance would he have of picking up the right one? It would be exactly the same odds that just eight of the messianic prophecies would all come true in any one person—yet they all came true in Christ (adapted from Science Speaks by Peter Stoner).

2. The prophecies most compellingly reveal Christ.

Before sharing dozens of fulfilled prophecies, Justin Martyr wrote to the Roman Emperor 150 years after Jesus’ birth: “We will now offer proof, not trusting mere assertions, but being of necessity persuaded by those who prophesied [of Him] before these things came to pass…and this will, we think appear even to you the strongest and truest evidence.” Justin saw the prophecies as his key argument for the truth of Christ, and for good reason: the prophecies prove Jesus truly is the One who can forgive sins.

3. Fulfilled messianic prophecy removes a monumental roadblock

I was witnessing to two teens at Huntington Beach tonight, and one of them mentioned he was raised in church, but no longer believes because he doesn’t want to commit to any religion as they’re all basically the same thing, and none can be proven. I used the messianic prophecies to show him the absolute truth of Christ; there was no comparison. He got supernatural proof. God used these prophecies to show me that Jesus is the true Savior of all mankind when I was as a Jewish teen, with a Muslim stepfather, who wanted the truth, no matter what road that took me down. Sincere questions like, “Aren’t all religions just different paths to the same place?” or “How can we really know that Jesus is the way?” have a very logical answer through these fulfilled predictions. Show a Muslim, Hindu, an atheist, or anyone else the prophecies; let them see it’s not blind faith, but that God has revealed Himself—it’ll help them reevaluate their own beliefs and the lack of proof for them, and provide the obvious path to God. Show these mind-blowing prophecies that span centuries; it’s one of life’s biggest game-changers. Anyone can know for certain, intellectually, that in Jesus our sins can be forgiven. The world doesn’t offer such supernatural confidence for anything, nor do other religions.

4. Jesus and the Gospel authors strategically wove messianic prophecy throughout the Gospels.

In the Gospels alone there are over 45 references to fulfilled messianic prophecy. On the road to Emmaus an incognito resurrected Jesus rebuked the disciples for being slow to believe the messianic prophecies about Himself, and then Scripture narrates: “And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself” (Lk. 24:27). Jesus pointed quite a bit to the prophecies about Himself during His earthly ministry as well. “You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me…For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me” (Lk. 5:39, 46). On the cross Jesus cried out, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”—a prophetic passage from Psalms 22. After Jesus rose from the grave he said, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me” (Lk. 24:44). Prophecy wasn’t an afterthought; throughout Jesus’ ministry He had pointed His disciples to the fact that He would fulfill prophecy, as that was the supernatural evidence people needed to identify Him as the promised Savior of the world.

Of course, the prophecies aren’t just mentioned in the Gospels; they are throughout the New Testament. As a quick example, in the very second verse of Romans, Paul states he was separated to the gospel, which God “promised before through His prophets in the Holy Scriptures” (Rom. 1:2). Then he sandwiches the point in the closing benediction of Romans 16 stating that the gospel was revealed “by the prophetic Scriptures made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith” (Rom. 16:25,26). Prophecy references are everywhere, and as Paul said, they are there “for obedience to the faith.”

“Many a martyr has died for a noble cause, and in many religions. Their death attests to their sincerity, not to the truth of what they died for.”

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5. The prophecies authenticate who Jesus is.

Many a martyr has died for a noble cause, and in many religions. Their death attests to their sincerity, not to the truth of what they died for. Paul “vigorously refuted the Jews publicly, showing from the Scriptures that Jesus is the Christ” (Acts 18:28). Going back to the Scriptures to show Jesus was the promised Messiah proved Him no mere mortal dying for a noble cause He truly believed in; those prophecies gave Him the credentials of the One who could die for their sins, and reconcile them to God.

6. The prophecies generate the breathtaking warmth of hope.

Colossians 1:23 refers to “the hope of the gospel.” It’s easy to speak strictly of the intellectual purposes of prophecy, but to someone living in the shadow of death who has spent a lifetime questioning which religion is the correct one—each religion claiming to come from God, each with sincere followers, each with holy books—looking for some sort of true direction from God, the prophecies give them the insurmountable joy of knowing that God has revealed His path, that He is knowable, and that their sins can be forgiven. A genuinely fulfilled prophecy is a testable miracle. It’s awe-inspiring, and brings the sincere soul the greatest of joys.
@Pikachu

@Carazaa

[quote]There are no failed prophesies[/quote]

I think you're wrong about that.

I can think of a couple off the top of my head:

The fall of tyre and the return of jesus.

@Pikachu Where is the prophesy of Tyre? And Jesus rose from the dead, and He is coming this generation I believe.

@Carazaa

Ezekiel 26:1-21

[quote]And Jesus rose from the dead,[quote][/quote][/quote]

I'm referring to matthew when jesus says "there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

Well that was wrong. He hasn't returned yet and those folks are definitely dead.

[quote]He is coming this generation I believe.
[/quote]

No doubt. As near as i can tell, Christians have believed that literally every generation since the faith began.

@Carazaa Looks like Tyre was a fulfilled prophesy 3 times, and they came back to life but was destroyed again a few times.

Jesus rose from the dead during the apostles life time, but when he says This generation he talks about the generation when he will come back I believe. How did he know there would be "great" earthquakes in the last days? How did he know there would be increased knowledge? How did he know people would go to and fro in the last generation?

There have always been earthquakes and people are always learning, people have always gone to and fro.

@Carazaa

[quote] Looks like Tyre was a fulfilled prophesy 3 times[/quote]

lol isn't that kind of a problematic statement? The prophechy was fulfilled THREE times? Just like the Damascus thing all over again, isn't it?
If a prophecy is not fulfilled by one single event then it is not a prophecy.

But no, the prophecy of tyre was a failure.
Actually that same video explains a number of the problems if you're willing to listen.

[youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeO5ue7Bl9U?t=874]

Sorry, it's not exactly at the right time but it starts around there.

[quote]Jesus rose from the dead during the apostles life time,[/quote]

But he did not return in his kingdom which is what he said he'd do.
And no, he's not referring to the generation when he finally does return because he said "some of you STANDING HERE". He was referring to those gathered there.

[quote] How did he know there would be "great" earthquakes in the last days? [/quote]

When have there NOT been "great" earthquakes?

[quote]How did he know there would be increased knowledge? [/quote]

Assuming that Armageddon doesn't happen in this generation, do you think people 2 thousand years from now will have an increase of knowledge compared to what we have today?
I would certainly predict that they will but i don't think that makes my claim prophetic.

[quote]How did he know people would go to and fro in the last generation?[/quote]

Sorry, i don't know what this means.

@Entwistle Look up "great" earthquakes. Scientists have found them increasing in strength and frequency lately.

And a hundred years ago there were only horses. All the generations have not seen top of clouds, but we have from airplanes.

knnowledge has drastically changed from 50 years ago with the technology.

@Pikachu In Matthew 24 Jesus says that this generation will not pass away, I think he meant the generation of the last generation when he said what signs to look for.

And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
[b][/b]

@Carazaa

I agree. But i think it's also clear that he was speaking of the people standing there before him.
Hard to get past the "Standing here" part.

@Pikachu What verse are you talking about?

@PikachuIf you came over to our side you would be an amazing witness
☺️

@Carazaa

Oh sorry, i'm going back to the verse in matthew where jesus says the people standing before him will not taste death before he returns in his kingdom.

@Carazaa

lol thanks.