Want to see a one hit K.O by evolution to young earth creationism? [Spirituality & Religion]

@Carazaa

You know what can't happen with sinking soil?
The stratification of less complex to more complex organisms.

If it were a matter of things getting all mixed then you would see trilobites in the same layer as an ichthyosaur or a anomalocaris in the same layer as a cat.

But you don't.
Nowhere.
Ever.


[quote]Also he on purpose made things debatable to test our faith[/quote]

I don't see that as wonderful.
If god made the fossil record look like it was in DIRECT contradiction to what is written in genesis to trick people into believing the facts before their eyes, that is not wonderful. It's despicable.

That's like you sitting a test and you've studied hard and you're confident about the answers...but then the teacher has gone round and put little notes in everyone's desk with the test answers written down..except they're the wrong answers.

@Carazaa that’s only a story in a book..

How did shells end up at the top of the mountains ha ha 🤗@Pikachu

@Carazaa

Those mountains used to be ocean beds.
When continents collide, great sections of rock are forced under and over.
The parts that are forced up become mountains.
So sea shells fossilized on the sea floor are pushed up on top and there we find them on mountains.

@Carazaa Oh dear, perhaps you should read a book on geology.

@BushrangerMaybe you need to read Gods word. Yes there was the ocean above the mountains. He was upset about all the sinning so he killed everyone with a flood except Noah and his wife and 3 children and wives. There were 8 people who God chose to save with a boat . They mocked Noah until they drowned. They all said you crazy fool for believing God will kill us. We don't need to repent! We live in a desert. God loved Noah and saved him and his family alone. We are close to his coming and we need to repent so we don't die when he comes back. God says in the last days many will mock but they will be sorry.

@Carazaa Sorry to disappoint you, but I have read the Bible. I'll admit that it was some time ago, but I can see no compelling reason to read it again. Now, other than the Bible stories, can you present any conclusive evidence for the Biblical flood?

@Bushranger I don't need evidence for the flood. God said it happened so I believe it happened. Prove it didn't!

@Carazaa You're the one making the positive claim, but it doesn't take a lot of searching to find evidence that a global flood didn't occur. It would be of benefit for you to find those sources yourself. It will assist you to learn how to acquire knowledge and question things.

A fool says there is no God, God says. I have no time for fools I am a busy professional, except I care about you. And don't be fooled.

@Carazaa

[quote]Prove it didn't!
[/quote]

That is EXACTLY what the subject of this thread relats to, carazaa.

The evidence points towards evolution and away from a catastrophic global flood.

Using an evolutionary model we would expect to see life on earth going from less complex to more complex as adaptations compound. If we look at the fossil record, this is exactly what we see. Simple invertebrates to fish to reptiles to mammals and so on. These are separated by distinct geological layers. And while we do of course see simple organisms coexisting with complex ones ( just look at an earth worm) we never see something like a dolphin in a fossil bed with trilobites. Nowhere.
Ever.
If all these animals were killed in the flood, we would see their remains mixed together.
From a creation standpoint where the animals were created at around the same time and many of whom died at the same time, we would expect to see animals at all stages of complexity mixed together. And yet we find these fossil beds with exclusively “simple” organisms.


The evolutionary explanation is that each organism evolved separately over a long period of time through common decent.

@Carazaa

[quote]A fool says there is no [/quote]

No one is saying that if evolution is true then there is no god.

You know that.

I hope you won't be close-minded and refuse to talk because it's uncomfortable.
Wouldn't that be foolish?

@Carazaa If you were familiar with my posts, you would know that I have made the statement on numerous occasions, that I can't disprove the existence of God, so I accept the possibility of God existing. I, personally, haven't seen enough evidence to convince me that God exists so I, personally, don't believe. If you do, I'm fine with that. My issue is with the claim that the Bible is a historical document that provides all the answers. Science doesn't have all the answers, but at least it admits it. Science also continues to search for answers. The Bible is static and discourages exploration of alternatives.

@Pikachu You have to prove it and more than that, you have to substantiate every theory that is scientific. The proof is not ours to do but yours! Don't ask questions for people to disprove science. We don't have to! That is not our job. But your job. You are turning things around for your own convenience. Because faith is faith in God alone, not science. Faith is NOT provable but self-evident. Science you say is proven so you have to prove it! The job is yours!!

@Carazaa

[quote]The job is yours![/quote]

In the context of evolution being the superior explanation, i agree 100% because i'm the one making that claim.

And that's what i'm trying to do by encouraging you to talk about it with me.
You're not going to be convinced by me just telling you facts. You need to think about them too and discussion is the best tool for that.

So...let's discuss🙂

I'm game if you are👍

@Bushranger OK, Now you are making sense✌️

@Carazaa So you are willing to acknowledge that the Old Testament might be allegorical?

@Bushranger No that is your belief.

@Pikachu Hi! So above here I gave 3 observations regarding young earth and creation. But I am repeating the earlier thoughts again here. But since I am not a geologist (although I have an advanced science degree)I will expand my own belief and give some references from scientists at Cambridge, Oxford, Columbia University, and Smithonian who ARE scientists.

If the earth is young or old it does not change the fact that no science can explain how the world began, where the first cell came from, or if there is a God or not. But we know there is a God from observing nature, it is self evident, and from the Bible. And I do not make up things when I do not understand them. Not because I can't understand, but because God explains it to me in His word, The Bible, (big difference from making things up).

He says He created everything in 6 days and rested on the 7th (that's why we have 7 day week. He commands us to rest on the Sabbath day. I never do any work at all on Sundays to honor Him and thank Him.

Man was made in the image of God. Man sinned and fell from His Holy Grace. The world was cursed and creation is "groaning". God became a man to save us. He took all humanities sins on his own shoulders, and was himself punished and died because He loves us. He divided time before Christ and After Christ, BC and AD, And he is coming again to destroy this world and make a new heaven and a new earth where there is no sin at all.

Only those who repent and are "saved"(have the indwelling of God the Holy Spirit) can enter heaven. I am saved and I am here to Glorify God, no other reason. No time in history has God given us such a beautiful tool to proclaim that he is coming soon, repent, and love Him, because the time is short.

1. First, God created the earth in 7 days and it looks old. Adam and Eve looked 20 years old when they were created in a day. They looked a lot older than they were.

2. The earth is cursed by God because of mans sin. Therefore it is in a sad condition with its earthquakes all over, floods, fires, and mans destruction on it which naturally changes the appearance of earth.

3. There was a flood that has been proven by many geologists. There has been ocean fossils found far from oceans verifying a fantastic flood about 7000 years ago. Lamont- Doherty and Pitman, Professors at Columbia University

4. Scientists disagree about the fossils. There are holes in the research, says G. S. Carter Professor of Cambridge England So the facts are not there for stratification.

5. Science change all the time with new research but they still can't explain basics like energy, gravity, etc. They know some, but not where energy came from originally and exactly how it works. Both Science, and Faith in a God, come to a standstill and we have to have "faith" in one or the other because we just DO NOT KNOW the answers in science. Says Dr. John Lennox Professor at Oxford England a Creationist

6. "There are no evidence of forms between species, there are gaps" which disprove evolution completely. Dr. David Kitts says who is Professor and author in Zoology at Smithsonian.

Dr. John Lennox - Oxford professor, England
Dr. G.S Carter-Professor at Cambridge, England
Dr. Lamont-Deherty- Geology Professor Columbia University
Dr. David B Kitts- Zoologist, Smithsonian Institute
These are just a few references there are thousands more.


Please watch Dr. John Lennox' lecture from Oxford
"Seven days that divide the world" on You tube

I will answer all your posts. They look really interesting!😇

@Carazaa

I'm going to be blunt, carazaa. I hope you will not interpret this as rudeness. My only goal is clear communication.

[quote]no science can explain how the world began,[/quote]

To repeat myself, the theory of evolution is not meant to describe how life began any more than the theory of gravitation is meant to describe how matter originated.
This is a separate issue and in no way disputes the evidence of evolution.

[quote]He says He created everything in 6 days and rested on the 7th (that's why we have 7 day week. He commands us to rest on the Sabbath day.[quote][/quote][/quote]

Sure...the sabbath being saturday which is why you're allowed to travel to church on sunday (take it up with the 7th day adventists lol) but none of this having to do with evolution OR how creationism can account for the fossil record.

[quote] God became a man to save us ... Only those who repent and are "saved"(have the indwelling of God the Holy Spirit) can enter heaven.[/quote]

So you say.
But this also has nothing to do with our current subject of discussion.


On to your numbered points.

1) So god could create the world to look old.
How does this explain the stratification of remains? He could make it look as if these remains were much older than you believe them to be but why would that result in the division of complexity?

2) If you know of an explanation which would allow earthquakes and floods to organize animal remains in order of complexity the please share it.

3) There have been floods all over the world for ages. That's a fact.
There has [i]never[/i] been [i]any[/i] vitrification of a global flood.
If you believe there is, please share your source.
Ocean fossils found far away from [i]modern[/i] oceans are just that.
Just because there is no body of water there now does not mean there wasn't one in the past.
This invariable proves to be the case.

4) I'm going to need a lot more detail to disprove that fossil layers show stratification than "Scientists disagree about fossils".

5) Literally nothing to do with the current subject. Possibly you're trying to suggest that science will one day change and confirm creation as described in the bible?

6) "There are no evidence of forms between species, there are gaps"
Demonstrably wrong.
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CC/CC200.html
Here's one of my favorites, the mammalian inner ear
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_mammalian_auditory_ossicles


And i hope, carazaa, that you're not going to be offended by the fact that i've disagreed with you nor use it as an excuse to end the conversation.
I only mention it because i've encountered that attitude too often and not just among creationists😉

So to be blunt, the bulk of your post did not appear to address the actual subject we are discussing; i.e. stratification of complexity in the fossil record.
Given your research, what specific information have you parsed pertaining to how creation accounts for that?

@Pikachu Please watch "7 days that divide the world" Dr. John Lennox Professor in Mathematics at Oxford can explain it better than me. Top scientist who believe in creation ☺️

@Carazaa

Carazaa.... that video makes no answer to the question i've asked you.
Nothing Dr Lennox says even [i]attempts[/i] to explain why we see what we see in the fossil record.
If you feel that a certain part of this video IS germane to our topic of discussion then i would appreciate either a quote or a time stamp.

Allow me to separate the wheat of your post from the chaff, if you will.

The only points which appear to have anything to do with this subject are points 4 and 6.
I have addressed those and i hope you'll respond my objections now.

Remember, if you don't know how creation can account for what we see in the fossil record, you are allowed to say that!
You don't have to admit that creation is wrong. But if you can't offer an explanation for the evidence under debate, the honest thing to do is say so.

I don't want to rush you into an answer. If you feel that you need to do more research to properly answer my question then i encourage you to do so.

I already quoted references that dispute fossil evidences! And there is enough debate about the facts among the geologists so we can not assume your "facts" are facts.

@Carazaa

You didn't quote me sources, you quoted me names.

Can you share some sources which suggest that the fossil record is other than i have described?

What exactly is debated among geologists?