Is christian morality superior to secular morality? Why? [Spirituality & Religion]
It seems to me that christian morality ultimately falls back on what god wants, whether or not that is for the well being of humans, while secular morality is based upon what is the in interest of a human's well being.
It seems to me that human well being should be in the better interest of human well being than what a god demands of us for his purposes.
This page is a permanent link to the reply below and its nested replies. See all post replies »
I don't think the two are necessarily different. Once we reduce secular morality to what is for the "well being" of humans it comes down to the same thing that God wants for us. That's because we were created in His image so there's no other option than for us to want what He wants. The problem is only when metaethical moral relativism masking as secular morality enters the fray to try to sway us.
@MeisterAndrew You merely beg the question. It is first necessary to establish the veracity of your claims about the existence of your god, then to establish the veracity of its actions and wishes.
@Pikachu But we don't want anything different to what God wants. Isn't it funny how all laws in all countries so closely resembles the ten commandments?
[quote] But we don't want anything different to what God wants.[quote][/quote][/quote]
So why do we sin? How are the sinful things we desire not in contradiction to what god wants? If they are not in contradiction to what god wants, why are they called sin?
And no, it's not funny that morality closely resembles the commandments when we assume that they were made by humans in the same way that laws all over the world are made by humans.
So our individual desires may contradict what god wants. So then how do you justify the assertion that we don't want anything different to what god wants?
@Pikachu Because once we agree on what's good for humanity it's the same as what God wants. I may want to take that Porshe but I still agree that theft is and should be against the law.
So what about when god says that being with another man as with a woman is bad? Is an abomination? Is [i]punishable[/i] ? Secular morality would say that two consenting adults can be with one another and there's no harm there, no matter their gender. But what god (allegedly) wants is for only man and woman to be allowed to have romantic relationships. So if we want that, if gay people want that and if straight people want that for them, that [i]does[/i] appear to be for human well being but [i]against[/i] what god wants.
@Pikachu Well is that actually true? The only laws given by God are the ten commandments. The others are prescripts for how the Jews should live in the desert and if any of them were missing they would have been wiped out 10 times over already. Jesus reduced the commandments to only two not even focusing on the prescripts and even abolished some of them like not eating pork.
If you're only going by the 10 commandments (and presumably the 10 commandments 20 and not in 34) then there is precious little that christianity claims as god's will that can actually be attributed to god.
So is the bible the inspired word of god or is it not?
@Pikachu Well what does the two commandments say? If we follow them we follow all the commandments that matter. You should actually look at natural law as it most closely resembles the symbiosis between what God wants and what society wants.
The bible (original Hebrew and Greek) is actually a non issue. What's more an issue is how organised religion has twisted it into its own dogma that isn't biblically supported. Example is masturbation which isn't spoken out against anywhere yet we have some church sects who do.
Well do the two commandments include puting god before anyone else? I don't think so but you'd agree that, that is a necessary hierarchy of loyalty for a christian.
Do you feel that this would result in human well-being more often than puting people before the will of god? If god says "kill these people (philistines,amalekites, apostates), their women and children too"... Is that for human well being? Certainly not for the philistines. Secular morality would clearly dictate (and appears to be reflected in our modern, [i]secular[/i] international rules) that killing everyone, even the women and children is morally repugnant. Yet these were the orders of god his own self.
So can human well being can be in contradiction with what god commands? Seems so. So then god's will is not necessarily always for human well being. So if human well being is the metric by which we're determining superiority, how can we consider christian morality to be equal to secular morality?
@Pikachu Well putting God first is a necessary condition as God's will is to put humanity before ourselves. So it's much more nuanced than that and the two aren't mutually exclusive.
It's funny you take that example because it's exactly the same thing America has been doing in the world. So where is secular morality? The funny thing is if those people had been killed when they were only a few thousand (they weren't innocent) they wouldn't be demanding their own state now and in the process kill countless millions in the process.
@Pikachu Err... it was the whole system at fault. A system which cooked babies on hotplates and continued unto the next generation. So nobody was really innocent as they all partook in it. But this is the fact that you and other continually ignore for convenience sake.
America has invaded countless countries and killed many innocents in the process for its own agenda. So really it shouldn't be a surprise why I'm wondering and have a chuckle when it's suggested that secular morality is superior when it not only allows this but condones it.
[quote]But this is the fact that you and other continually ignore for convenience sake.[/quote]
Sorry. If that's really what you believe then want to hear you say the words "it was right to murder babies for the crimes of their parents" and since you've arrived at that conclusion via christian morality, i then want you to explain how that is a superior version of morality.
I really don't get what argument you're trying to make here. Yes, america has been all over and done a lot of bad. Not sure where you get the idea that this is morally right from a secular moral view. Are you arguing that since it has happened, this is acceptable and moral? Furthermore, just how does this invading practice differ from all the invasions and bloodshed by god's chosen in the bible? After all, that definitely WAS considered morally good. Sorry, i just don't see where you're trying to go with that.
