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Science Still Points To God [Spirituality & Religion]

[youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRZaBLQJ_ag]
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TheSeptikSkeptik · 46-50, M
Alright! This my jam baby! Let's do it. Science in no way points to any deistic being, because it simply can't. The scientific methodology itself can only investigate that which can be observed and/or measured. God is an unfalsifiable presupposition and therefore can never be tested in any kind of scientific manner, ever. Unless he himself comes down for testing. Attaching God to any kind of scientific discovery is incredibly dishonest and a giant leap in logic. I'll watch the video and then see if I can explain where they are going wrong.

Okay so right off the bat they start out using circular reasoning (God exists, therefore we find evidence of it's existence through scientific discovery.) and a clear confirmation bias. Then move into an argument from authority to support their circular argument. (Quoting Fred Burnham)
The quote itself is just an argument from popularity. (All these people believe it, so it must be true!) Millions of flies eat shit, so it must taste good!

The universe had a beginning so therefore God? Does this also mean that God would have had to had a beginning as well? How does beginning equate to creation? Two completely different concepts. Yep. The famous transcendental argument or otherwise known as the Kalam cosmological argument popularized by apologist William Lane Craig. The premise is that everything that begins to exist has a cause. That creates a dichotomy within our shared reality between things that began to exist, and things that didn't begin to exist. How do we determine if something began to exist? Observation and the ability to detect it. In the very first premise of this argument there is already a gaping logical flaw. Since God is determined to have always existed, he has to go in the did not begin to exist set. Therefore the argument actually becomes "All things except for God, has a cause." And if we take God out of the did not begin to exist category then he has to go into the began to exist category and that my friends, creates an infinite regression. Who created God? There is a lot more to this argument but since the very first premise is deeply flawed, it's kind of pointless and I need to move on.

More quote mining and argument from authority. The fine tuning argument, another apologetic staple. Almost the same as the first in respect to making a logical leap to God in it's conclusion. This argument states that the universe just operates too perfectly to have happened by chance. When in reality, it's everything but perfect. The overwhelming majority of our planet and the universe is not suitable for human life. The majority of plants will cause harm or kill you if you eat them. Most of the wildlife will try and kill you if you impose, believe it or not. Pretty ridiculous if you give it just one iota of thought.

Argument from complexity, argument from incredulity and argument from ignorance.

This guy is so dishonest. Of course modern science undermines the scientific principles of it's predecessors, that's exactly how science works. How can people take this guy seriously? We still believed in medical humors and all kinds of goofy supernatural/pseudoscientific crap back then.

This is a longer video than I had thought. I think I'm gonna take a break. I may come back to this and I may not.
GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M
@TheSeptikSkeptik [quote]Attaching God to any kind of scientific discovery is incredibly dishonest and a giant leap in logic.[/quote]

That's right because science didn't create God, it was the other way around, God created science.
TheSeptikSkeptik · 46-50, M
@GodSpeed63 How can you demonstrate that? You would first have to prove that God exists in order to apply agency to it. Just asserting something doesn't make it so.
TheSeptikSkeptik · 46-50, M
@GodSpeed63 Even if I were to concede and grant you these arguments, how do you conclude that it's the Christian God and not the Sumerian God? How do we know how to determine if one creation story is more valid over another?
GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M
@TheSeptikSkeptik [quote]How can you demonstrate that?[/quote]

You're one of the perfect examples that God lives. Plus, you must've seen the video that started this long thread and others I've put on here.

[quote]Even if I were to concede and grant you these arguments, how do you conclude that it's the Christian God and not the Sumerian God?[/quote]

Through God's Holy Spirit that dwells within me just like He can with you if you'd allow Him to.
@GodSpeed63 And the holy spirit of L. Ron Hubbard will dwell within you if you use your free will to become a Scientologist.

The problem with your scenario is that you have to believe God exists before you can believe in him.
GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M
@LeopoldBloom [quote]And the holy spirit of L. Ron Hubbard will dwell within you if you use your free will to become a Scientologist.[/quote]

There's only one Holy Spirit and L. Ron Hubbard doesn't have it.

[quote]The problem with your scenario is that you have to believe God exists before you can believe in him.[/quote]

The problem with you is that prove that Yahweh doesn't live even though you choose to believe that He doesn't live. Another thing is that you're talking to a man who has God's Holy Spirit of Truth dwelling within Him and he knows and believes without a shadow of doubt that Yahweh is real and His Word is Truth.
TheSeptikSkeptik · 46-50, M
@GodSpeed63 God's holy spirit of truth dwelling within you. There it is. So in other words, whatever you believe is divine inspiration from God himself and therefore infallible? So what happens when your divine knowledge doesn't match up with objective reality? Is reality wrong in that case?
GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M
@TheSeptikSkeptik [quote]So what happens when your divine knowledge doesn't match up with objective reality? Is reality wrong in that case?[/quote]

Nothing, God's divinity lines up very well with reality. He's more real than you or I could hope to be in this fallen world.
Lila15 · 22-25, F
@TheSeptikSkeptik You have a great argument, but you're not going to change the mind of a true believer. Godspeed has obviously had some kind of experience of the divine. You and I can have our opinon of that, but whatever it was, it was very real to him. So nothing you tell him will make any difference. His mistake is thinking that he can tell [i]you[/i] something that will make a difference.

Religious experience can't be communicated. It would be like me dropping a rock on my toe, and expecting you to feel the same pain I do.
GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M
@Lila15 [quote]His mistake is thinking that he can tell you something that will make a difference.[/quote]

You're right in saying that I can't make a difference of my own accord. It's not my place to. All I can do is share what I know and believe to be the truth.

[quote]Religious experience can't be communicated.[/quote]

My experience was not of a religious nature but one of transformation through Jesus Christ by His Holy Spirit. Okay?
TheSeptikSkeptik · 46-50, M
@GodSpeed63 Do you consider The Bible God's word?
GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M
@TheSeptikSkeptik [quote]Do you consider The Bible God's word?[/quote]

Yes I do.
Lila15 · 22-25, F
@GodSpeed63 Thank you for sharing. If it's OK, I'll hold out until Jesus contacts me himself, instead of sending his self-appointed representatives like you to speak in his place.
GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M
@Lila15 [quote]self-appointed representatives like you to speak in his place.[/quote]

You got it wrong, baby sister, I'm not self appointed. Jesus appointed me. His Spirit dwells within me and shares with me what God shares with Him. Then, I share with others as He instructed to. He loves you, Lila, and all He asks of you is to return His love. Okay?
PikachuTrainer · 26-30, M
@GodSpeed63 actually no, you are self-appointed, Jesus didn't appoint you, he doesn't talk to you, neither does God, you are just hiding under your own self-delusions.
GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M
@PikachuTrainer [quote]actually no, you are self-appointed, Jesus didn't appoint you, he doesn't talk to you, neither does God, you are just hiding under your own self-delusions.[/quote]

On what basis do you draw your conclusions on. Who appointed you to live my life?
PikachuTrainer · 26-30, M
@GodSpeed63 for one: Religion, that includes yours, are man made, and until such time as verifiable evidence shows up, God and Jesus are both fictional as well.
GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M
@PikachuTrainer [quote]Religion, that includes yours,[/quote]

What religion would that be? I'm not religious, neither is God or Jesus.

[quote]God and Jesus are both fictional as well.[/quote]

You still haven't told me what your basing that conclusion on.
PikachuTrainer · 26-30, M
@GodSpeed63 sorry but you are, if you believe in either God or Jesus then you are, by default, Religious, there is no exception here.

The fact that the bible is 1. filled with contradictions, 2. none of the events mentioned in the bible happened, 3. there are 2 versions of genesis, 4. there is no archaeological evidence to prove that any of the events in the Bible happened, and lastly 5. there is no evidence of a God to begin with.
GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M
@PikachuTrainer [quote]sorry but you are, if you believe in either God or Jesus then you are, by default, Religious, there is no exception here.[/quote]

By whose authority, yours? Sorry, my friend, but it doesn't count. That's only your opinion and not actual truth.
PikachuTrainer · 26-30, M
@GodSpeed63 nope, not my authority, you still believe in a religion whether you like it or not, at this point however I question as to whether or not you believe in more of Cult than actual Christianity.
GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M
@PikachuTrainer [quote]nope, not my authority, you still believe in a religion whether you like it or not[/quote]

If not by authority then whose?
PikachuTrainer · 26-30, M
@GodSpeed63 the definition of the word "religion", you know, the one shared by 99% of the planet including other religions that you seem to be, for some strange reason, rejecting.
GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M
@PikachuTrainer [quote] the definition of the word "religion", you know, the one shared by 99% of the planet[/quote]

What about the one percent, what does it say?
PikachuTrainer · 26-30, M
@GodSpeed63 it is more like 0.000000001%, populated only by you.