This page is a permanent link to the reply below and its nested replies. See all post replies »
suzie1960 · 61-69, F
@LadyGrace Who is to say what constitutes "real christianity"? The christians I associated with claimed to be real christians, just as you do. Others who disagree with both them and you would also claim to be real christians. My reading of the bible revealed it was all false, just a collection of myth and superstitions gathered together from older belief systems. I just followed the evidence.
@suzie1960 I can’t say I understand that, because while we have standards, we freely want to live by, I’ve never heard any follower claim they felt enslaved. I’m really sorry that was your experience. I can’t help but wonder what denomination you were shipped under because I know there are some that claim to be Christians but are cults. Not saying yours was, but it’s not something that couldn’t have happened, either. I’m just curious. Would you say you’re angry at God, or a particular church, or group? You don’t have to answer if you’re uncomfortable with that. I was just purely curious.
suzie1960 · 61-69, F
@LadyGrace I didn't feel enslaved when I was a christian. Like other christians, I was under the illusion I was free. It was only after I broke free from christianity that I realized I had been enslaved.
The denomination was just ordinary, everyday christianity. I would call all forms of christianity cults because that what they are - "a system of religious veneration and devotion directed towards a particular figure or object." (https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/cult)
I'm not angry at the christian god because I don't believe it exists. I just get annoyed by proselytizing christians, seeking to deceive others as I was deceived. They tend to target impressionable people such as children and the vulnerable.
A couple I know whose baby died of "cot death" were bombarded with christian propaganda from several churches when the death was reported in a local paper. That was really sick. Just how low can christians sink in their quest to gain converts?
The denomination was just ordinary, everyday christianity. I would call all forms of christianity cults because that what they are - "a system of religious veneration and devotion directed towards a particular figure or object." (https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/cult)
I'm not angry at the christian god because I don't believe it exists. I just get annoyed by proselytizing christians, seeking to deceive others as I was deceived. They tend to target impressionable people such as children and the vulnerable.
A couple I know whose baby died of "cot death" were bombarded with christian propaganda from several churches when the death was reported in a local paper. That was really sick. Just how low can christians sink in their quest to gain converts?
@suzie1960 How did you conclude it was just myths and superstition? There is more evidence for Jesus being real, and documentation, then there was for Julius Caesar. To date, every prophecy in the Bible has come to pass, with great accuracy. For example, the prophet Isaiah, prophesied some 500 years before Jesus died on the cross, that he would hang on the cross and not one bone in his body would be broken...now that is very specific...and he was right on. He made this prophecy before Jesus was born. Those people didn’t even realize Jesus was coming, until they heard the prophecy. I think that was pretty cool.
“Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.” (Isaiah 7:14)
Detailed predictions about people, nations, and events were foretold centuries before they occurred, and their fulfillments have been historically verified.
In about 700 BC Isaiah prophesied that Babylon would conquer Judah (Isaiah 39:5-6). Isaiah’s prediction came true 100 years later. Isaiah also predicted that Babylon would be conquered by another nation (Isaiah 21:9). This prophecy was fulfilled in 539 BC. Then Isaiah had an even more amazing prediction. The prophet identified by name the king who would allow Judah to rebuild Jerusalem (Isaiah 44:28). Cyrus, king of Persia, did conquer Babylon and decreed that the Israelites could return to their homeland. Isaiah predicted this 150 years earlier!
Now, you have to admit, that’s very impressive. Now, please don’t think I’m trying to bombard you. I know you are happy the way you are, and that’s fine. I just want to show you how many prophecies of Isaiah, have come true. Some at the bottom are yet to be fulfilled.
Here is a pretty comprehensive list of Isaiah’s prophecies, organized by topic, Isaiah reference, and New Testament references, in case you wish to research any individual fulfillment.
Repentance for the nations, Isa 2:2–4, Luke 24:47
Hearts are hardened, Isa 6:9–10, Matt 13:14–15; John 12:39–40; Acts 28:25–27
Born of a virgin, Isa 7:14, Matt 1:22–23
A rock of offense, Isa 8:14-15, Rom 9:33; 1 Pet 2:8
Light out of darkness, Isa 9:1–2, Matt 4:14–16; Luke 2:32
God with us, Isa 9:6–7, Matt 1:21, 23; Luke 1:32–33; John 8:58; 10:30; 14:19; 2 Cor. 5:19; Col 2:9
Full of wisdom and power, Isa 11:1–10, Matt 3:16; John 3:34; Rom 15:12; Heb. 1:9
Reigning in mercy, Isa 16:4–5, Luke 1:31–33
Peg in a sure place, Isa 22:21–25, Rev 3:7
Death swallowed up in victory, Isa 25:6–12, 1 Cor. 15:54
A stone In Zion, Isa 28:16, Rom 9:33; 1 Pet 2:6
The deaf hear, the blind see, Isa 29:18–19, Matt 5:3; 11:5; John 9:39
King of kings, Lord of lords, Isa 32:1–4, Rev 19:16; 20:6
Son of the Highest, Isa 33:22, Luke 1:32; 1 Tim 1:17; 6:15
Healing for the needy, Isa 35:4–10, Matt 9:30; 11:5; 12:22; 20:34; 21:14; Mark 7:30; John 5:9
Make ready the way of the Lord, Isa 40:3–5, Matt 3:3; Mark 1:3; Luke 3:4–5; John 1:23
The Shepherd dies for His sheep, Isa 40:10–11, John 10:11; Heb. 13:20; 1 Pet 2:24–25
The meek Servant, Isa 42:1–16, Matt 12:17–21; Luke 2:32
A light to the Gentiles, Isa 49:6–12, Acts 13:47; 2 Cor. 6:2
Scourged and spat upon, Isa 50:6, Matt 26:67; 27:26, 30; Mark 14:65; 15:15, 19; Luke 22:63–65; John 19:1
Rejected by His people, Isa 52:13–53:12, Matt 27:1–2, 12–14, 38
Suffered vicariously, Isa 53:4–5, Matt 8:17; Mark 15:3–4, 27–28; Luke 23:1–25, 32–34
Silent when accused, Isa 53:7, John 1:29; 11:49–52
Crucified with transgressors, Isa 53:12, John 12:37–38; Acts 8:28–35
Buried with the rich, Isa 53:9, Acts 10:43; 13:38–39; 1 Cor. 15:3; Eph. 1:7; 1 Pet 2:21–25; 1 John 1:7, 9
Calling of those not a people, Isa 55:4–5, John 18:37; Rom 9:25–26; Rev 1:5
Deliver out of Zion, Isa 59:16–20, Rom 11:26–27
Nations walk in the light, Isa 60:1–3, Luke 2:32
Anointed to preach liberty, Isa 61:1–3, Luke 4:17–19; Acts 10:38
Called by a new name, Isa 62:1–2, Luke 2:32; Rev 3:12
The King cometh, Isa 62:11, Matt 21:5
A vesture dipped in blood, Isa 63:1–3, Rev 19:13
Afflicted with the afflicted, Isa 63:8–9, Matt 25:34–40
The elect shall inherit, Isa 65:9, Rom 11:5, 7; Heb. 1:14
New heavens and a new earth, Isa 65:17–25, 2 Pet 3:13; Rev 21:1
“Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.” (Isaiah 7:14)
Detailed predictions about people, nations, and events were foretold centuries before they occurred, and their fulfillments have been historically verified.
In about 700 BC Isaiah prophesied that Babylon would conquer Judah (Isaiah 39:5-6). Isaiah’s prediction came true 100 years later. Isaiah also predicted that Babylon would be conquered by another nation (Isaiah 21:9). This prophecy was fulfilled in 539 BC. Then Isaiah had an even more amazing prediction. The prophet identified by name the king who would allow Judah to rebuild Jerusalem (Isaiah 44:28). Cyrus, king of Persia, did conquer Babylon and decreed that the Israelites could return to their homeland. Isaiah predicted this 150 years earlier!
Now, you have to admit, that’s very impressive. Now, please don’t think I’m trying to bombard you. I know you are happy the way you are, and that’s fine. I just want to show you how many prophecies of Isaiah, have come true. Some at the bottom are yet to be fulfilled.
Here is a pretty comprehensive list of Isaiah’s prophecies, organized by topic, Isaiah reference, and New Testament references, in case you wish to research any individual fulfillment.
Repentance for the nations, Isa 2:2–4, Luke 24:47
Hearts are hardened, Isa 6:9–10, Matt 13:14–15; John 12:39–40; Acts 28:25–27
Born of a virgin, Isa 7:14, Matt 1:22–23
A rock of offense, Isa 8:14-15, Rom 9:33; 1 Pet 2:8
Light out of darkness, Isa 9:1–2, Matt 4:14–16; Luke 2:32
God with us, Isa 9:6–7, Matt 1:21, 23; Luke 1:32–33; John 8:58; 10:30; 14:19; 2 Cor. 5:19; Col 2:9
Full of wisdom and power, Isa 11:1–10, Matt 3:16; John 3:34; Rom 15:12; Heb. 1:9
Reigning in mercy, Isa 16:4–5, Luke 1:31–33
Peg in a sure place, Isa 22:21–25, Rev 3:7
Death swallowed up in victory, Isa 25:6–12, 1 Cor. 15:54
A stone In Zion, Isa 28:16, Rom 9:33; 1 Pet 2:6
The deaf hear, the blind see, Isa 29:18–19, Matt 5:3; 11:5; John 9:39
King of kings, Lord of lords, Isa 32:1–4, Rev 19:16; 20:6
Son of the Highest, Isa 33:22, Luke 1:32; 1 Tim 1:17; 6:15
Healing for the needy, Isa 35:4–10, Matt 9:30; 11:5; 12:22; 20:34; 21:14; Mark 7:30; John 5:9
Make ready the way of the Lord, Isa 40:3–5, Matt 3:3; Mark 1:3; Luke 3:4–5; John 1:23
The Shepherd dies for His sheep, Isa 40:10–11, John 10:11; Heb. 13:20; 1 Pet 2:24–25
The meek Servant, Isa 42:1–16, Matt 12:17–21; Luke 2:32
A light to the Gentiles, Isa 49:6–12, Acts 13:47; 2 Cor. 6:2
Scourged and spat upon, Isa 50:6, Matt 26:67; 27:26, 30; Mark 14:65; 15:15, 19; Luke 22:63–65; John 19:1
Rejected by His people, Isa 52:13–53:12, Matt 27:1–2, 12–14, 38
Suffered vicariously, Isa 53:4–5, Matt 8:17; Mark 15:3–4, 27–28; Luke 23:1–25, 32–34
Silent when accused, Isa 53:7, John 1:29; 11:49–52
Crucified with transgressors, Isa 53:12, John 12:37–38; Acts 8:28–35
Buried with the rich, Isa 53:9, Acts 10:43; 13:38–39; 1 Cor. 15:3; Eph. 1:7; 1 Pet 2:21–25; 1 John 1:7, 9
Calling of those not a people, Isa 55:4–5, John 18:37; Rom 9:25–26; Rev 1:5
Deliver out of Zion, Isa 59:16–20, Rom 11:26–27
Nations walk in the light, Isa 60:1–3, Luke 2:32
Anointed to preach liberty, Isa 61:1–3, Luke 4:17–19; Acts 10:38
Called by a new name, Isa 62:1–2, Luke 2:32; Rev 3:12
The King cometh, Isa 62:11, Matt 21:5
A vesture dipped in blood, Isa 63:1–3, Rev 19:13
Afflicted with the afflicted, Isa 63:8–9, Matt 25:34–40
The elect shall inherit, Isa 65:9, Rom 11:5, 7; Heb. 1:14
New heavens and a new earth, Isa 65:17–25, 2 Pet 3:13; Rev 21:1
suzie1960 · 61-69, F
@LadyGrace The bibilical prophesies are couched in metaphor and are so vague they can be made to fit as required to prove whatever point one wishes. Also, they mirror similar prophesies from older belief systems. The idea of god manifest being born of a virgin is common to many religions.
I didn't say Jesus didn't exist, there were probably several people by that name but I don't believe any were "god" or "the son of god". That idea is no different from, for example, the legend of Robin Hood. Some people believe he was a god manifest too.
I didn't say Jesus didn't exist, there were probably several people by that name but I don't believe any were "god" or "the son of god". That idea is no different from, for example, the legend of Robin Hood. Some people believe he was a god manifest too.
@suzie1960 Christian’s are not out to convert. That’s the Holy Spirit’s job. Jesus just told his followers to spread the good news that people can have a personal relationship with Him, and have eternal life.
To be honest and fair, I see so many others on this site, promoting sex, porn, witchcraft, philosophies, drugs, showing cakes with private parts, displaying and sending nudity, talk filthy and act rude and disrespectful to each other, curse, criticize, hate, and everything from soup to nuts, and discuss pretty filthy stuff, too, yet no one says a thing. None are offended at that. But just let the followers of Christ come on here to simply share their beliefs, and all of a sudden we're “proselytizing”, "religious zealots", "haters", and "delusional". Yes...we're really a danger to children and adults, such a threat, sharing Jesus' love like that! Jesus said not to forbid little children to come into Him, for such is the Kingdom of Heaven.
This is not about religion. No matter what belief we have, the fact is, in the end, we are all alike, in the same boat. We all have sin in our lives and we need a remedy to have it forgiven, so that we can live in heaven. It’s up to the individual whether they want to believe that or not. It’s as simple as that.
To be honest and fair, I see so many others on this site, promoting sex, porn, witchcraft, philosophies, drugs, showing cakes with private parts, displaying and sending nudity, talk filthy and act rude and disrespectful to each other, curse, criticize, hate, and everything from soup to nuts, and discuss pretty filthy stuff, too, yet no one says a thing. None are offended at that. But just let the followers of Christ come on here to simply share their beliefs, and all of a sudden we're “proselytizing”, "religious zealots", "haters", and "delusional". Yes...we're really a danger to children and adults, such a threat, sharing Jesus' love like that! Jesus said not to forbid little children to come into Him, for such is the Kingdom of Heaven.
This is not about religion. No matter what belief we have, the fact is, in the end, we are all alike, in the same boat. We all have sin in our lives and we need a remedy to have it forgiven, so that we can live in heaven. It’s up to the individual whether they want to believe that or not. It’s as simple as that.
@suzie1960 Well, there’s plenty of documentation to back that up. Vague? I don’t call Isaiah’s prophecies vague. No more than the exact details of what we can expect for our future. It is in great detail, and whether people believe it or not, those prophecies shall come true. Unbelief will not stop God’s plans.
suzie1960 · 61-69, F
@LadyGrace Those you criticize aren't trying to convert others, many of the posts from christians clearly are. If they were attempting to draw children and the vulnerable into their practices I and many others would join you in opposing them, just as we oppose those christians who attempt to draw children and the vulnerable into their practices.
That is only what you believe, it isn't necessarily true. I don't believe in sin in the way you appear to believe in it. No doubt, in some christians' eyes, I am the personification of evil because I broke free from christianity. I don't believe in your god or the idea of a post mortem "heaven" either.
We all have sin in our lives and we need a remedy to have it forgiven, so that we can live in heaven.
That is only what you believe, it isn't necessarily true. I don't believe in sin in the way you appear to believe in it. No doubt, in some christians' eyes, I am the personification of evil because I broke free from christianity. I don't believe in your god or the idea of a post mortem "heaven" either.
suzie1960 · 61-69, F
@LadyGrace Your idea of "vague" isn't one I share. Just about any non-specific prophesy will eventually appear to fit some event if we wait long enough. Until then, we simply have to say it is "yet to be fulfilled".
Unbelief will not stop God’s plans.
Nor will belief make "god" real. I could say unbelief won't stop Santa's plans. Even children who say they don't believe in Him still get presents. Perhaps they secretly do believe, they just don't admit it.@suzie1960 I really resent you saying that I’m criticizing others, or trying to convert them. As I mentioned, Jesus told His followers to tell others about Him. Notice they have a choice. No one is forcing them. I’m not and I didn’t. Jesus himself was the one that said we all have sin in our lives...not me. If people don’t want to accept that, that’s fine. It’s up to them. And you really assume that Christians look at you as if you’re evil. Like I said, we are all in the same boat. One is not any better than the other, nor more sinful than the other because God does not categorize sin. There's nothing wrong with stating my beliefs, that’s all I’m saying. I'm asked about them all the time. You were the one assuming things about me and said Christians proselytize. If you don't want to believe, that's up to you. I didn't come to convince. I'm just sharing, like anyone else here. Not twisting anyone’s arm. Look who’s calling who, what. You have criticized me and my beliefs up and down. That is not a very nice attitude to have towards people. I didn’t criticize you. I tried to show respect and then you started attacking me. I was just trying to have a conversation with you and see how you came about in believing as you do, out of curiosity, but you’ve crossed the line.
Bottom line: We all have one life. We should believe what we wish, and let others do the same without criticism. The world, will be better for it.
Bottom line: We all have one life. We should believe what we wish, and let others do the same without criticism. The world, will be better for it.
suzie1960 · 61-69, F
@LadyGrace
Sorry, I thought you were being critical of those who post about
While it is true that people, in general, have a choice, children and the vulnerable can be easily led.
I said "No doubt, in some christians' eyes, I am the personification of evil because I broke free from christianity.. Note I said "some", not "all". Also, many christians do proselytizes, I did too when I was a christian. We called it "spreading the word" but it was proselytizing nonetheless. I note a lot of christians (again not "all") strongly object to followers of other religions writing about their beliefs. I'm not attacking you, I'm just questioning the reasoning behind what you believe. I don't understand why you perceive that as an attack. Atheists come under that sort of questioning all the time.
I thought I'd made it clear why I broke away from christianity. I studied the bible and, to put it simply, found it didn't add up. It had too many contradictions and factual error to be the work of a supreme being such as "god" is supposed to be.
I really resent you saying that I’m criticizing others,
Sorry, I thought you were being critical of those who post about
... promoting sex, porn, witchcraft, philosophies, drugs, showing cakes with private parts, displaying and sending nudity, talk filthy and act rude and disrespectful to each other, curse, criticize, hate, and everything from soup to nuts, and discuss pretty filthy stuff, too,...
While it is true that people, in general, have a choice, children and the vulnerable can be easily led.
I said "No doubt, in some christians' eyes, I am the personification of evil because I broke free from christianity.. Note I said "some", not "all". Also, many christians do proselytizes, I did too when I was a christian. We called it "spreading the word" but it was proselytizing nonetheless. I note a lot of christians (again not "all") strongly object to followers of other religions writing about their beliefs. I'm not attacking you, I'm just questioning the reasoning behind what you believe. I don't understand why you perceive that as an attack. Atheists come under that sort of questioning all the time.
I thought I'd made it clear why I broke away from christianity. I studied the bible and, to put it simply, found it didn't add up. It had too many contradictions and factual error to be the work of a supreme being such as "god" is supposed to be.