@basilfawlty89 I have friends from way back who are transwomen and I like and accept them. But I also have cis friends who see transwomen, who have never experienced the physical stuff, menses, etc. as foreign, "not like us". And now one needn’t physically transition to identify as female. So that’s folks with [b]penises[/b] wanting to be a part of all-women areas. It’s not that difficult to understand why that might feel unsafe to cisgender women.
@bijouxbroussard sorry, but it is to me. How many actual sexual assaults have happened by transwomen against ciswomen, especially in the dress public restroom? Most violence are done [b]to[/b] transwomen, particularly transwomen of colour.
Also, women can sexually assault too. I know two women who were molested as children by older girls.
@basilfawlty89 That doesn’t stop anyone from wanting separate facilities, and there’s still a reason that public dressing rooms and showers in gyms, for example, are separate. This is new territory. I’m not talking about bathrooms with stalls, but locker rooms and communal showers.
@bijouxbroussard There are trans people who don't get gender affirming surgery for lots of reasons, not the lesst of which because of the costs associated.
I am curious as to examples of trans women demanding to be naked in front of other women in the locker room. Sounds like a weirdo no matter what gender they are.
@Doomflower When I used to use the YWCA there were rows of shower spigots without curtains and the understanding was that women showered, keeping our eyes to ourselves. It was uncomfortable for many of us who weren’t used to bathing among other people—even with everyone having the same parts.
@Doomflower Basil didn’t see why any cis women "would have an issue". I was giving an example. And there’s a [b]reason[/b] that there generally aren’t public coed locker rooms and showers. And there’s also a reason a woman may feel comfortable dressing and showering around mother and sisters, but [b]not[/b] around father and brothers (without worrying that the latter might assault her).
If having female genitalia is no longer necessary to be accepted as a woman in all situations, why [b]wouldn’t[/b] someone who still has a penis but identifies as female expect to be allowed in women—only spaces ?
"Teenagers who identify as girls are being placed in female dorms at a summer camp started by David Cameron, it was reported last night. The National Citizen Service (NCS), launched by Cameron in 2011, is also said to have allowed some of them to choose which toilets and showers to use as part of its inclusion policy. One mother told The Daily Telegraph that her 16-year-old son, who has recently started identifying as a girl, signed up to the camp this year as female and was asked which room she would prefer to sleep in. When the mother raised concerns about the policy, she said she was told that “we will allow the young people to self-ID and they will be put into whichever dorm they feel comfortable in”. "The child’s mother said: “I didn’t think that it was fair for him to go into the girls’ dorm. If mixed-sex dorms are allowed, then obviously there is the risk of sexual relations, but also this is a threat to the privacy of the girls.”
@EarthlingWise so an article from 2011 and another behind a paywall so I can't read it in full. Both mention toilets and sleeping arrangements but there is no indication of nudity.
@Doomflower People undress around each other in dormitories, preparing to shower or go to bed. You said you couldn’t imagine the circumstances, but 2011 would indicate it’s been both imagined and acted upon.
@basilfawlty89 Probably not. Like I said, this is new territory. All facilities may eventually be coed. There might be a third option that’s gender-neutral. And before you compare it to racial "separate but equal" no one black had to make any physical alterations. Our only difference was skin color, and sometimes not even that.
