This post may contain Mildly Adult content.
Mildly AdultUpdate
Only logged in members can reply and interact with the post.
Join SimilarWorlds for FREE »

Is it time to ban church in the US?

In the last 3 weeks alone, 30 religious figures, mostly youth pastors, have been arrested for sex crimes involving children.
Since there is such a huge discourse around banning or restricting things to help protect children, (except guns of course) we should just ban church services outright, right? It is clear that the people who attend and lead them are the biggest threat to children in America (except guns of course).
You’d assume that republicans would be in favor of this ban, but they are more interested in projecting their own tendencies onto drag queens and lgbt people.
This page is a permanent link to the reply below and its nested replies. See all post replies »
Abstraction · 61-69, M
Sexual abuse of children is in every single organisation involving children.
* Schools
* Foster care
* Families (the institution with the most sexual abuse by a long way)
* Scouts
* Clubs
* Churches and other religious institutions
* Social work
* Sporting clubs
In every single case the instances of abuse are exceptional, not the norm.
sarabee1995 · 26-30, F
@Abstraction I was going to point this out but didn't have the energy at the time. But it's true. Every single institution of man (and this includes our churches, mosques, temples, and synagogues) has within it both good and evil because both good and evil are within the nature of mankind. 😔
This comment is hidden. Show Comment
Abstraction · 61-69, M
@Emosaur I failed to understand nothing. Systemic abuse in families, scouts, sporting clubs, churches, foster care, orphanages... but not in majority of any of these.
And you still don't understand the concepts behind the religions you have spent years criticising.
This comment is hidden. Show Comment
Abstraction · 61-69, M
@Emosaur No, we established in a recent conversation that you don't understand how Christianity addresses the problem of pain. Since I'm familiar with this area of thought, it isn't some new idea these ideas have been around for ages past, and I pointed out at least one source, it seems like you haven't done your homework. I'm not trying to be rude. Your argument raises good questions which are actually thousands of years old, for which there are rational responses in I think all the world's major religions. To assume everyone is ignorant when you haven't done your homework is a little ironic
@Abstraction He doesn’t read. I’ve posted him no less than four links that address his concerns of supposed systemic bigotry and intolerance in the scripture of my faith from incorrect traslations, words changing meaning, and lack of context. He ignores them, continues to push his incorrect and debunked narrative, and hurl insults at me and my faith. When I decide to no longer engage him he calls me a coward and a liar. It’s very difficult to discuss with him as he is very bigoted and intolerant of people of faith himself.
This comment is hidden. Show Comment
This comment is hidden. Show Comment
@Emosaur then you didn’t read at all.

Last time that I’m posting something that you refuse to read.

https://forward.com/community/458595/in-jewish-tradition-sodomy-doesnt-mean-what-you-think/?amp=1
@Emosaur words literally can and do change meaning all the time. That’s sort of how language works.
@Emosaur and if in fact, you are saying the first meaning is the only true one than that would only mean that it doesn’t mean anal sex at all, because that came after… not first.
This comment is hidden. Show Comment
@Emosaur you did. or at least hinted to it as saying that the definition of sodomy is as to include sex that is other than vaginal. Are we even having the same conversation at all?

[quote]Emosaur · 22-25, M
@DarkHeaven I read them and all they did was prove my point. Just because you don't like what "sodomy" and "effeminate" mean doesn't make them magically change their meaning.
[b]Again, sodomy is any sex position other than vaginal (penis to vagina). Yes, heterosexual couples can be sodomites too, but this includes homosexual couples as well as they are physically unable to have vaginal sex.[/b][/quote]

You did know that Jesus was a Jew right?

And I didn’t change the words meaning. It changed after the time of the Talmud which is the Jewish text that the Old Testament was written from. Because again… Jesus was a Jew.
BackyardShaman · 61-69, M
@Abstraction so your point is what? This makes it ok? Rape them at church?
This comment is hidden. Show Comment
@Emosaur because the word sodomy wasn’t about any kind of sex at all, which you would know if you had read any of the links I’ve posted. It’s making this conversation very difficult when you refuse to read the links that I’ve posted.

From the article.

[quote]Ezekiel explicitly says that the sin of Sodom was that “they did not help the poor and the needy.” He then goes on to say that they “did detestable things before me.”
The language here is important. Generations of Christian thinkers assumed that “detestable things” was an allusion to homosexuality, and thus included Ezekiel within their interpretation. The Talmud, however, begs to differ.
The Talmud basically understands Sodom’s chief iniquity to be the fact that they closed off their gates to strangers. One of the Torah’s central principles is the fact that Jews were once strangers in the land of Egypt, which endowed us with the moral imperative to care for the less fortunate; shunning travelers is a big transgression.
Whenever a pauper happened to come to them, each and every Sodomite would give him a dinar, and before doing so would write his name on [the coin] And, as per a prior agreement, [the Sodomites] would not offer [the pauper] bread. When [the pauper] eventually died of hunger, each and every Sodomite came and took back his coin (Talmud Sanhedrin 109a).
In Talmudic thinking, running a society that closes its gates to foreigners will eventually lead to subterfuge and even passive murder. Perhaps worse is that here, the Sodomites are presenting a facade of welcoming.
There’s a lot to say about these Midrashim, least of all that they have nothing to do with homosexuality. In the Jewish tradition, it seems that the word “sodomy” is attached to a lack of care for others, not to anal sex. The worst of societal behaviour — being a Sodomite — is the running of a society that is fundamentally closed off to strangers and immigrants.[/quote]
This comment is hidden. Show Comment
@Emosaur The Old Testament is directly from the Talmud. Directly.

It’s really not as difficult as you are making this. I get that you want to be able to justify your hate and bigotry of faith based on your misunderstanding of scripture but you really should save it for those churches that also have an incorrect understanding and use it for bigotry of people. I don’t deny that many churches have used this same understanding for all of the things you’ve said. But it’s not scripturally based. I’m sorry that doesn’t conform to what you’d like but the truth is often like that. Inconvenient to your feelings.
sarabee1995 · 26-30, F
@Emosaur Christians, and especially Roman Catholics, referencing Jewish writings with regard to the Old Testament has nothing to do with changing religions! Saying something like that betrays a fundamental lack of understanding of the Abrahamic faiths and the interconnected nature of their scriptures.
This comment is hidden. Show Comment
This comment is hidden. Show Comment
@Emosaur It’s literally their part of the Bible. We basically copied that shit. So you have to go by the intent of the actual authors. No Christian writer ever wrote anything in the Old Testament.
This comment is hidden. Show Comment
@Abstraction If we talk about Churches and religious institutions abuse is not exceptional it's a systemic issue.
Even in families religious fundamentalists are more likely to abuse their children and isolate them from outside influences making it more difficult to reach out for help.
In the other institutions it is not the norm and while I am not saying religion is always tied to child abuse and sexual abuse we can recognize a pattern and a systemic issue of abuse within religious institutions and communities.
Just thinking about the horrible atrocities committed by nuns against young mothers and their children as well as orphans in their care in various countries.

Your reply is pure whataboutism.