I have never had, never will have, anything to do with illegal drugs, including marijuana.
I do not know anyone who does.
I have never known how and where to obtain any, and never wanted to know even in my youth.
Of the legal drugs?
- Tobacco? When aged about 19 I tried a cigarette once, a pipe on another occasion: disliked the taste, decided it a foolish waste of money, never tried again. That even before learning tobacco's health danger and antisocial effects.
- Alcohol? Yes: an occasional pint or two of cask ale (not "craft" or "artisinal", please!), a glass of wine or "wee dram" much more rarely, but nowthing like as often as in the past.
The "hard" and other illicit poisons? Illegal, dangerous. I have always had too much courage and self-respect for that.
A former neighbour of mine was found dead, by her boyfriend. I knew she had serious problems but not what or why, until the post-mortem and inquest revealed it. Her killer had been heroin.
@LordShadowfire They do only because they are legal and readily obtainable, so far more people use them.
If you smoke cannabis mixed with tobacco you still risk oral, throat or lung cancer or other diseases from the tobacco; and the cannabis itself cannot be considered "safe". How could it be? It has to have chemical effects on the body to bring the superficial ones craved, so what are its hazards?
Frequent drinking even without being addicted is not safe, though at least moderate drinking has big social connotations which no other drug including tobacco and nicotine-vapour products, has.
All drugs, legal or not, can be addictive, some very dangerously so; and the legal two (alcohol and nicotine) do not excuse any of the others.
@ArishMell You know what I'm saying. Cannabis mixed with tobacco, you might as well just be smoking tobacco, so it skews the results. Tobacco is deadly, cannabis is not.
(Although also, I don't recommend burning cannabis and inhaling the smoke when there are gummies available.)
@LordShadowfire I may have mixed up which is the drug wrapped within tobacco in order to take it; but even if cannabis is not likely to kill its long-term use is still not safe.
There is not even any sensible reason to use either of them, although I know some risk raw cannabis as a rather desperate analgesic for chronic pain.
The cannabis extracts used medicinally are different from mere "recreational" cannabis. They are extracts that leave the needless, addictive and potentially harmful chemicals behind, and are, or certainly should be, prescribed only under medical supervision.
@LordShadowfire No I did not claim cannabis is deadly, as addiction to the more powerful poisons like ketamine and cocaine may be; but it must have long-term health-risks; and there is still no excuse for using it. Besides, it is illegal where I live.
@ArishMell Why is there no excuse for it, exactly? What is it about cannabis that you hate so much? The cancer prevention? The ability of it to treat glaucoma? The fact that it's been known to help with ADHD?
@LordShadowfire Medical canasbi sis NOT the same as so-called "recreational" cannabis!
The pharmaceutical versions are extracts designed to treat illness, and should only be used under proper medcial control.
Habituual, so-called "recreational", use of cannabis is very unlikely to be safe; and has no medical or social value. It's just a pointless addiction to a something for its own sake.
No-one "needs" take any sort of narcotic "recreationally". All can be harmful in their own ways. Alcohol is the only one both legal and having any sort of social logic or culinary value. Even that is hazardous, with the recommended weekly maximum now thought safe for regular use being equivalent to only a couple of pints a beer a week.
I do drink, occasionlly, but nowhere near as often as in the past. I have smoked just one cigarette in my life and have never wanted to try any illegal narcotic. I have never even known how to obtain them, and have only ever known about three or four people who have used them - though one past girlfrined was an alcoholic.
Result? I am as fit and healthy as man in his 70s can sensibly expect, still physically and mentally active enough to enjoy various hobbies, have no criminal record, am fairly stable financially; and have quite wide circles of friends all in similar situations.
Amost none of them smoke, but a few might have done in the past. Those smoked only tobacco, and do not even touch the nicotine-vapour products now deliberately made to be very strongly attractive and addictive even to children, let alone adult smokers struggling to break their tobacco habit.
None of my relatives smoke even tobacco, but some do drink occasionally and socially.
If you become addicted to any drug, you become no longer free. You become enslaved to a needless, potentially dangerous, expensive toxin for no good reason.
@LordShadowfire I understand you perfectly well. You have explained it perfectly clearly.
You support using cannabis, both as a so-called "recreational" narcotic and the medical extracts from it; merely because it is not potentially fatal, at least not as far as known.
I have no qualms about proper medical use of properly-made cannabis extracts, any more than I have any qulams about synthetic willow-bark infusion (asprin); but otherwise see no point in risking one's own health by taking a needless substance having not even any social value - and which also happens to be illegal in my country.
@ArishMell The reason I have chosen not to engage you further is that you keep stating your opinions as if they are facts. I might pick up this conversation later, but at the moment, I'm dealing with some other stuff outside of this website, and so I don't have the patience, and I'm trying to be better when that happens, because that's usually when angry Shadowfire comes out and shocks everybody.
I understand that you support using cannabis "recreationally", or at least do not criticise it. That is your opinion.
Are your statements all "facts"? No opinions? What is wrong with an opinion?
My facts are simple:
- I have never wished or needed to use cannabis. A fact of opinion and choice.
- I have never seen any need for anyone to use it (except medicinal extracts under proper medical control) - but know many are addicted to some drug, including tobacco or alcohol. A fact of opinion. Alcohol ruined a former girlfriend's life; heroin ruined then ended (though accidentally) a former neighbour's life: facts.
- I see no social or fashion value in it, even if others do. A fact of opinion.
- I cannot judge the published concerns by doctors about cannabis' potential health hazards; but will still not risk needless potential harm by narcotics. Nor also, by bad diet or no exercise. (I don't smoke, drink much alcohol or eat only "junk food"; but do keep physically and mentally active.)
- Cannabis is illegal in the UK. That is a fact! The only legal "recreational" narcotics here are tobacco (and its nicotine-substitute) and alcohol. I have never broken, and will never break, the law and risk ruining my social and family life by using illegal drugs - however much anyone tries to defend them, or indeed if they are legal in your country.
@LordShadowfire All right, if you disagree with me saying there is no sensible reason for taking cannabis as what is called a "recreational drug", presumably you believe it is sensible to use it; so please state why you believe so. Without trying to trick me.
It will be YOUR opinion, but at least we will know what that is.
Not medical versions of cannabis - we basically agree on that although I propose it must be proper medical versions, prescribed by a doctor, and used as prescribed. (Versions prepared by isolating the medically useful compounds and putting them in carefully-designed blends.)
What I meant by "fact of opinion" was that it is a fact I stated my honest view. I also stated facts, but you rubbished my comments whether fact or opinion.
All right, if you disagree with me saying there is no sensible reason for taking cannabis as what is called a "recreational drug", presumably you believe it is sensible to use it; so please state why you believe so. Without trying to trick me.
Okay, so now you're accusing me of trying to be deceptive, while at the same time pretending to discuss this in good faith. Ordinarily, this is where the discussion would turn into a fight that would lead you blocking me, but I'm determined not to rise to the bait this time.
To begin with, not all of us can get a prescription or license, so rec is the only option for us. In my case, I don't exactly have a diagnosis for ADHD, or whatever else is going on with me. (I mean, I was diagnosed back in 1983, but apparently nobody wants to take that seriously in 2025. Go figure.) So it's much simpler, knowing as I do what's actually wrong with me, to simply medicate however I can. But in addition, I find that it is helpful to me in the same way that others, such as your hypocritical self, would enjoy a couple of drinks in the evening. A good many people prefer that over the heavy feeling of being drunk, and in addition, there are far fewer detrimental side effects. Liver and kidney damage leap to my mind almost instantly when I think about alcohol, but you cheerfully ignore that, continuing to enjoy a
wee dram
of a beverage that causes liver damage, kidney damage, brain damage, etc., while condemning people who enjoy the occasional cannabis gummy as consuming
illicit poison
I begin to wonder if your entire thought process as to whether a substance should be consumed begins and ends with the question, is it legal? Because that is hardly a rational or logical way of deciding.
What I meant by "fact of opinion" was that it is a fact I stated my honest view. I also stated facts, but you rubbished my comments whether fact or opinion.
The only actual fact that I can see that you stated (and by fact, I mean something for which you either provide evidence or no evidence is needed) is that cannabis is illegal in the UK. The rest was all unfounded assertions and opinions.
I asked simply that you state you opinion on using cannabis non-medically, so I know what you believe rather than trying to guess it.
I will summarise my stance again, clarifying fact from opinion
Fact: We live in different countries with different medical and legal systems, and drugs laws.
Fact: Cannabis as purely "recreational" is illegal in the UK. Cannabis extracts as medicine are something of a grey area; but you cannot legally buy, own and use cannabis just for fun.
Fact: The only legal "recreational drugs" in the UK are alcohol and nicotine. They may be sold only to adults. The nicotine may be in tobacco or the vapour products originally intended to wean smokers off tobacco. {I don't go as far as some do, by saying caffeine is also a legal drug!}
Fact: Cannabis extracts can have medicinal value if made and used properly. So do morphine (analgaesic) and ketamine (anaesthetic). All narcotics including alcohol and tobacco are hazardous to a greater or lesser degree - some potentially fatal. We agree on that.
Fact: I have never used any of the illicit drugs, nor known how to find them; have never wanted to, either. I have though, seen a life ruined by alcohol and other ended by heroin. (As I did not know the signs, I had no idea what had caused the woman's odd behaviour, and her death, until after the inquest).
Fact: I have always enjoyed a drink - sometimes a little too much - but never took up smoking and have never understood the illicit narcotics' attraction. On tobacco and alcohol, in Britain at least, smoking is dwindling, and alcohol consumption even among young people is reported to be falling (partly due to the price, perhaps!). There are even alcohol-free pubs opening.
Fact: In my fifty-plus adult life so far, among many friends and acquaintances, many are social drinkers, some were tobacco smokers (my Dad admitted wishing he'd never started). Nowadays I know no "vape" users and almost no tobacco smokers. I have known definitely only one alcoholic, one of my girlfriends. Of illicit drugs, I think I have known of two or three cannabis users (not close friends); and just that one, tragic, heroin addict.
Finally, the one statement you might fairly take as Opinion - I know the legal alcohol is risky but has a social element; but I genuinely see no point in legal nicotine; let alone illegal substances including cannabis. (Excepting medical.)
I appreciate they are addictive and many users admit falling for curiosity, peer-pressure or the promise of quick pleasure then becoming trapped; but have never seen any sensible reason for trying them in the first place.
Quite simply, not only do I see no point risking wrecking my own health, social life and bank-balance, and breaking the law, for something others apparently think clever. I do not understand why anyone does!
I will summarise my stance again, clarifying fact from opinion.
No need of that. I understand the difference. However, I see that most of your facts are, in fact, the anecdotal fallacy. I'm expected to blindly take your word that this is what happened to you and your friends.
That being said, I've also seen a life ended by heroin. I happened along and called 911, and they were able to revive the person. I wish to God I hadn't, because what came back from the dead was just plain abusive.
But now here's where I take issue:
Quite simply, not only do I see no point risking wrecking my own health, social life and bank-balance, and breaking the law, for something others apparently think clever. I do not understand why anyone does!
Since you absolutely refuse to prove why it is that marijuana is equally as bad as heroin, as you are implying in this statement, we're done here.
@LordShadowfire Sto twuiting my words. Nowhere did I state any one drug is as dangerous as any other.
I still don't know what you are trying ro do, state, or prove, beyond you apparently thinking there is nothing worng with taking cannabis as "recreational" drug. (Not my adjective - that is the common way to refer to such substances) and you apparently thinking it wrong to want tnothing to with such substances.
That last sentence of mine you quoted is pure FACT of MY choice for MY life and how I see taking drugs generally, so why is it wrong?
@ArishMell I didn't twist anything. That is the message you are putting out there. By referring to it as a drug, you ignore the fact that it is a natural substance, and by continuing to compare it to heroin through anecdotal stories, the implication is clear.
