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Am I a human body?

What am I is a fundamental question? All answers are beliefs. Every belief provides a way for the questioner to live. If the belief works, the questioner disappears.

Why isn't your belief working?
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ABCDEF7 · M
It's working for me.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGKFTUuJppU&t=130s
sree251 · 41-45, M
@ABCDEF7 Good for you. It is important to have a belief that works for you till the body dies.
ABCDEF7 · M
@sree251 Yes, we are not sure of the truth after death of this body.
sree251 · 41-45, M
@ABCDEF7 I am only concerned about the life of my body. I need a belief that can get me through this life.
ABCDEF7 · M
@sree251 I am believer of Advaita. In simpler words, we are the consciousness, not our body, nor mind, not the blankness as in deep sleep.


This gives an introduction to the Advaita philosophy.
https://similarworlds.com/spirituality/4163840-Who-Am-I-answers-the-Nirvana-Shatakam
sree251 · 41-45, M
@ABCDEF7
I am believer of Advaita. In simpler words, we are the consciousness, not our body, nor mind, not the blankness as in deep sleep.

I am familiar with the philosophy of India. What is your understanding of Advaita? Everybody has a version of this belief. Are you familiar with J.Krishnamurti?
ABCDEF7 · M
@sree251 I have not listened to J.Krishnamurti yet. I get most knowledge about Advaita from talks by Swami Sarvapriyananda.

Here is a fundamental Advaita video by him.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-RFz56gb9E
sree251 · 41-45, M
@ABCDEF7 Thank you for the video, but I would rather talk to you about your belief. How does it help you live your life? I said that if your belief works for you, then the questioner disappears. The belief also disappears because you would be living it.
ABCDEF7 · M
@sree251 It certainly effects your perspective about things. Advaita is good to have an understanding about yourself and life. I found the path of karma yoga to be very helpful in setting right perspective for your day to day life actions. So there are mix of philosophies that I follow and believe in.

It's difficult for me to answer, how does it help me because now it mostly comes naturally to me, I don't have to explicitly think about the philosophy and respond to events in my life according to that.
sree251 · 41-45, M
@ABCDEF7
It certainly effects your perspective about things. Advaita is good to have an understanding about yourself and life. I found the path of karma yoga to be very helpful in setting right perspective for your day to day life actions. So there are mix of philosophies that I follow and believe in.

A man who walks down two roads goes nowhere. This is a Chinese saying. You can't believe in disparate philosophies and still have a fix on what is what. Can you?

It's difficult for me to answer, how does it help me because now it mostly comes naturally to me, I don't have to explicitly think about the philosophy and respond to events in my life according to that.

Are you the human body? This is my opening question. The body is front and center in my life. I have to have money to take care of my body. This necessity is the root of my problem being alive. I have to live the life of my body. I resent the burden because I have to suffer it's vulnerabilities. The Buddha pointed this out as the cause of suffering.
ABCDEF7 · M
@sree251 Good point. From outside, it may look to anyone that they are conflicting, or they are two totally separate paths. But as you said they are disparate. They actually don't work at the same levels of reality.

Advaita divides the reality into three levels, the ultimate/absolute reality, transactional/empirical reality, and illusionary/dream reality. At the level of Ultimate reality, you the ultimate consciousness is definitely not affected by laws of karma. You are not affected by laws of karma as the ultimate consciousness because the laws of karma doesn't apply at ultimate level of reality.

Previously, I used to just live at the transactional level of reality and believed the laws of karma. What Advaita done to me is to introduce me to the higher level of reality, the absolute reality. But that doesn't stop you from living at transactional reality.

When I am at the transactional reality, as I said in day to day actions. The law of karma apply and sets the right grounds for my actions at the level of empirical reality.

This structure exists in other approaches too, The Buddhism doesn't accepts the existence of God, or even the permanent soul or self/atman, but it accepts the law of karma. Because of the different levels of reality.

Now the question maybe, does the higher level of reality for you affects the lower level of reality for you? The answer is yes, the higher level of reality definitely affects the lower level of reality because it sets the grounds for it. While the lower level of reality doesn't affect the higher level of reality.
sree251 · 41-45, M
@ABCDEF7
Good point. From outside, it may look to anyone that they are conflicting, or they are two totally separate paths. But as you said they are disparate. They actually don't work at the same levels of reality.

I will take your word for it that there are no inherent conflicts from your perspective of those philosophies. I look forward to a cooperative inquiry into them.

Advaita divides the reality into three levels, the ultimate/absolute reality, transactional/empirical reality, and illusionary/dream reality. At the level of Ultimate reality, you the ultimate consciousness is definitely not affected by laws of karma. You are not affected by laws of karma as the ultimate consciousness because the laws of karma doesn't apply at ultimate level of reality

What do you mean by illusionary/dream reality?
sree251 · 41-45, M
@ABCDEF7
When I am at the transactional reality, as I said in day to day actions. The law of karma apply and sets the right grounds for my actions at the level of empirical reality.

Day to day actions take place in transactional reality where the body resides. Attending to the body keeps me in transactional reality. Am I transactional reality that vanishes when the body sleeps, and materializes upon the body's awakening from slumber? Or am I the body that exists in transactional reality?
sree251 · 41-45, M
@ABCDEF7
Now the question maybe, does the higher level of reality for you affects the lower level of reality for you? The answer is yes, the higher level of reality definitely affects the lower level of reality because it sets the grounds for it. While the lower level of reality doesn't affect the higher level of reality.

My question is whether I am the body that exist in transactional reality or I am transactional reality itself?
ABCDEF7 · M
@sree251 Sometimes you, or may not be you specifically, but few people while having a dream, feels like it is happening in reality while dreaming. To them the dream it self appears to them as reality during the dream. After they wake up, they comes to transactional reality, the dream reality doesn't exists anymore in transactional reality. You realizes that it was an illusion and not the reality. But when you were in the dream, the dream was a reality for you.

The illusionary reality is just not limited to dreams, the mirage when you see water in the desert or when someone sees a rope as a snake out of fear, they are also under illusionary reality. When you are under illusion the snake is the reality for you, but when you comes to a level above at empirical reality, it is a rope for you, and the snake was an illusion.

Similarly when you are at transactional reality, all the things and the you yourself appears to you as real, but when you at the absolute level of reality, the world is an illusion, and your are not your body or mind, you are just pure consciousness.

You can say them as three levels of experiencing the reality.
sree251 · 41-45, M
@ABCDEF7
Sometimes you, or may not be you specifically, but few people while having a dream, feels like it is happening in reality while dreaming. To them the dream it self appears to them as reality during the dream. After they wake up, they comes to transactional reality, the dream reality doesn't exists anymore in transactional reality. You realizes that it was an illusion and not the reality. But when you were in the dream, the dream was a reality for you.

Ok, illusionary/dream reality is lucid dreaming. My only issue is transactional reality where the body is at. Having a body entraps me in transactional reality till the body dies. This really sucks.
ABCDEF7 · M
@sree251 Not just physical body, there are five sheaths of the human body-mind complex than one can experience at the level of empirical reality.

1. Physical Sheath (Annamaya Kosha): It's the food body that you gathered over your life. Many people feel themselves as what is their physical body. But if you think consciously, your body is changing from when you were a kid, then you were a teen, then youth, and then your body becomes old. Your body has changed a lot, but you can identify to yourself as the same person when you were child or at youth. You are the same entity apart from your body. So you are the unchanging consciousness that is experiencing that body, not your body itself.
2. Sheath of Mind (Manomaya Kosha): It's the mental body which is the reflection of your mind in the consciousness. Its the personality you identify yourself as,. Some person identifies themselves as their minds, their thoughts, thier ideas. But in reality you are not your mind.
3. Sheath of Prana (Pranamaya Kosha): It's the energy body. The life forces in your body, some people relate themselves to the life forces they feel in their body.
4. Sheath of Intellect (Vigyanamaya Kosha): The above three were physical in nature. But the next two are not that physical in nature. It's the knowledge(not ordinary knowledge) body. Things that are grasped with 5 senses is considered as ordinary knowledge. And the knowledge that you cannot grasp through senses is this Vijnanamaya Kosha. It is body of transition, it's between physical and non-physical body.
5. Sheath of Bliss (Anandamaya Kosha): The bliss body is the experience of the bliss. As it is non-physical in nature, it's difficult to define it. Few people experiences that bliss when in deeper levels of meditation. So they identify themselves as this bliss.

One can experience any one, more than one or all five at the transactional level of reality. If you remove all five sheaths, you will realize that it was only these sheaths were appearing/reflected in the consciousness. You are not these sheaths, but the consciousness. When you realize that you are not these 5 sheath, then only you will be able to identify yourself as true consciousness. I am not a good teacher, I hope this video may also help you distinguish your true self, your consciousness with these 5 sheaths.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPtHCCT1SZM
ABCDEF7 · M
@sree251 No, that's not lucid dreaming.
sree251 · 41-45, M
@ABCDEF7
Not just physical body, there are five sheaths of the human body-mind complex than one can experience at the level of empirical reality.

The body-mind complex is still being debated within the scientific community. Nobody can pin down the connection between mind and body. Let's look at what your belief is.

1. Physical Sheath (Annamaya Kosha): It's the food body that you gathered over your life. Many people feel themselves as what is their physical body. But if you think consciously, your body is changing from when you were a kid, then you were a teen, then youth, and then your body becomes old. Your body has changed a lot, but you can identify to yourself as the same person when you were child or at youth. You are the same entity apart from your body. So you are the unchanging consciousness that is experiencing that body, not your body itself.

So, you are saying that I am not the physical body that is in a constant state of change from birth to death while I, the consciousness, is unchanging? I am not sure about that. I remember when I was four. I was wearing a onesie and riding a tricycle. That child is not me now. My consciousness is constantly changing as my body changes along with my accumulating experiences of transactional reality. Am I wrong?

2. Sheath of Mind (Manomaya Kosha): It's the mental body which is the reflection of your mind in the consciousness. Its the personality you identify yourself as,. Some person identifies themselves as their minds, their thoughts, thier ideas. But in reality you are not your mind.

What you are saying here is a little subtle. I remember when I was 8 and looking in the mirror. I gazed at my face, looked intently at my eyes quizzically and peered into the pupils. I shrank back fearfully when I lost the sense of being me. I asked my father how come there was a me. He said he didn't know and no one knew. It was shocking to me that no one had any idea what a person is and how it comes into being. Naturally, I found out in Catechism class. God made me. I believed that until I grew up and became a lapsed Catholic. I have been reflecting on my personal identity. It is no different from the brand identity of a business corporation i.e. Coca Cola, Apple, IBM, etc. It is a handle for a conceptual entity such as the USA. When I realized that, I lost the ability to form personal relationships. I couldn't be my father's son anymore. He might not get it but I did, and I couldn't fake a relationship when he believed that he was real and I don't. Non-personal relationships are ok and I need to act the part dealing with people in transactional reality at the store or going thru immigration at airports.

3. Sheath of Prana (Pranamaya Kosha): It's the energy body. The life forces in your body, some people relate themselves to the life forces they feel in their body.

Oriental medical theory identify this as chi. This is what my acupuncturist told me. I don't believe in his bullshit even though his needles and herbs did the job getting rid of some rashes that had been bothering me. I don't question the clinical results but the medical theory is hilarious. It is the same deal with western science. I accept the empirical evidence that I weigh 135 pounds as shown on my bathroom scale but Newton's theory of gravity is as hokey as chi. I don't believe that the Earth is attracting my body.

4. Sheath of Intellect (Vigyanamaya Kosha): The above three were physical in nature. But the next two are not that physical in nature. It's the knowledge(not ordinary knowledge) body. Things that are grasped with 5 senses is considered as ordinary knowledge. And the knowledge that you cannot grasp through senses is this Vijnanamaya Kosha. It is body of transition, it's between physical and non-physical body.

I can only consider what I can grasp with the 5 senses and apprehend as knowledge with the intellect. I acknowledge that this is the basic level of apprehension. Then there is instinct and intuition that transcends deductive reasoning in enabling action in transactional reality. Are we saying the same thing in different ways?

5. Sheath of Bliss (Anandamaya Kosha): The bliss body is the experience of the bliss. As it is non-physical in nature, it's difficult to define it. Few people experiences that bliss when in deeper levels of meditation. So they identify themselves as this bliss.

This thread is an inquiry into what I am. Am I the human body? Science says I am the human body. This belief doesn't work for me because I am still examining the question. I am not a biological organism much less a human being. I don't believe I am an inhabitant of planet Earth either. I don't believe that the Earth is spinning on its axis and revolving around the sun. These are basic questions about transactional reality. Don't you consider it an escapist distraction to experience bliss in transactional reality where people are suffering the pains of the body in the horrors of war, poverty, disease, and old age?
ABCDEF7 · M
@sree251

I am not a biological organism much less a human being. I don't believe I am an inhabitant of planet Earth either. I don't believe that the Earth is spinning on its axis and revolving around the sun.
If you think you should take help of science to advance into spirituality, or to find your answers, you should refer to a science person. I am not the right person to go for that.

If you don't believe earth is spinning on it's axis, and revolving around the sun, you might also believe earth is flat and not spherical. You can believe or not believe whatever you want. But if you really wanted to know answers to your questions. You should be willing to help yourself by trying to find the answers and trying to understand them. If you would have made a sincere effort and is ready to accept the science, a simple google search would have given enough science articles to understand why we don't feel that the earth is spinning on it's axis, and is revolving around the sun. But I didn't found your effort to search & understand yourself for the answers.

When it comes to the experiences, it becomes more complex as you can't even have support of empirical evidences that science provides.

I told you I am not a good teacher. I can be a good or bad student. And I don't consider myself to be qualified as a guru to clear anyone's doubt and guide them towards their way to spirituality. Neither I intend to be one, nor I have time to do it for anyone. That is why I hinted you in the direction that helped me. Now it's your own journey and you yourself have to find answers by doing the research yourself. I can't suggest you a spiritual guru to answer your personal questions and doubts.


This thread is an inquiry into what I am. Am I the human body?
All the links I shared with you only answers this question.
I don't know if you sincerely went through all the videos and tried to understand the concepts. I think, if you had, many of the questions you asked after that, would have been resolved. You should also try to find the answers for yourself, as it is your journey, not mine, and I am not your personal guru. What I felt is your unwilling to go for the right approach towards finding answers for yourself and then making true effort to understand them. Even if you have then and I misunderstood you, I can't give you more time. I have given more than enough time, that I expect for answering a post. I am not here for arguments or deep discussions for you.

Due to all these reasons, I am unsubscribing from this post, will not be getting notifications, nor will be taking it further. I am sorry if I added some more questions for you, or if I am not able to answer few.

Best Wishes. 🙏
sree251 · 41-45, M
@ABCDEF7
All the links I shared with you only answers this question.
I don't know if you sincerely went through all the videos and tried to understand the concepts. I think, if you had, many of the questions you asked after that, would have been resolved. You should also try to find the answers for yourself, as it is your journey, not mine, and I am not your personal guru. What I felt is your unwilling to go for the right approach towards finding answers for yourself and then making true effort to understand them. Even if you have then and I misunderstood you, I can't give you more time. I have given more than enough time, that I expect for answering a post. I am not here for arguments or deep discussions for you.

Due to all these reasons, I am unsubscribing from this post, will not be getting notifications, nor will be taking it further. I am sorry if I added some more questions for you, or if I am not able to answer few.

This has been a great discussion. Philosophical inquiry examines answers of science and spirituality. Answers that can't pass muster are consigned to the trash bin of beliefs.