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dcba9876 · 41-45, M
I would like to add this and, perhaps, get some feedback. Maybe I am thinking too much...? Please, correct me in any way where I may be wrong.

Here goes...

Focusing only on the death of Judas as the alleged issue, (Mt.27:5) is the definitive conclusion: "he hung himself" with the obvious implication of death. What, then, is Luke saying in (Ac.1:18)?

One thing to notice is that (Ac.1:18-19) is a parenthetical note by Luke to the reader, i.e., additional information on (Mt.27:5-8). Some interpreters take the phrase "falling headlong" as Judas having a misadventure (e.g. slipping off the cliff) and fell to his death, but this phrase doesn't necessarily imply he had to be alive (conjecture). If I kill a man and drag his lifeless body 15ft., I just drug him 15ft. Therefore, (Ac.1:18) is not saying what happened to Judas prior to his death or even at that very moment in the narrative. The text itself doesn't have the implication that he died from the fall; only what his body went through after "falling headlong."

There is simply not enough context in (Ac.1:18) to substantiate a contradiction. It certainly doesn't point to a living or non-living person, hence the corollary (Mt.27:5) which does indicate death. In fact, the text in (Ac.1:18) leaves open a massive gap..."Now this man acquired a field was the reward of his wickedness...and falling headlong..." This means a lot of information is missing, information was don't have.

Bart Erhman, in a debate with Peter J. Williams (YouTube @ 44:00 mark), gets stuck on the phrase "falling headlong." He says, "If someone is hanging and the rope snaps, how do they fall? Do they fall head first? To reconcile it, you have to come up with a completely implausible scenario." He goes on to say that Judas "somehow" fell headlong.

I believe we all wonder as to what specifically happened, but our understanding brings us to vastly different conclusions. We would agree that the context is lacking in Acts to tell Bart what he wants to know and what he's saying is that because there's not enough information there, it's a contradiction.

Is this not absurd thinking without all of the facts?
— what material did he hang himself with?
— how strong was the material?
— did the material break, unravel, slide off, burn off etc.?
— what exactly caused the material to separate?
— did he jump, swing from a ledge, step off of a stool etc.?
— was he hung from a tree branch, beam, a structure?
— where precisely did he hang himself?
— how high/low was he from the ground while hanging?
— does a rotten body "burst" simply falling in a field?
— how long was Judas hanging for?
— could the material have been cut/burned to avoid touch?
— could a Roman have transported his body off of a cliff?

The only information Matthew gives us is, "he departed, and went and hanged himself." (v.7) says the priests took Judas's blood money and purchased a field, assuming Judas's body landed or was buried there....?

It is estimated that between (Mt.27:5) and (Ac.1:18) was around a 40-50 day lapse.

According to CSCU, their article points out that the decomposition process, without embalming fluid, when a body is in a neutral climate, not in a coffin, and remains undisturbed:

* 3hrs postmortem = stiffening of muscles (rigor mortis)
* 24-72hrs postmortem = internal organs begin to decompose due to cell death, emitting pungent odors
* 3-5 days postmortem = as organs continue to decompose, body fluids leak from orifices, skin turns greenish color
* 8-10 days postmortem = body turns from green to red as blood decomposes and gases accumulate
* 2+ weeks postmortem = teeth and nails fall out
* 1+ month postmortem = the corpse begins to liquefy into a dark sludge
* skeletonization
.....although human decomposition is a natural process, cleaning up a decomposing body presents health hazards to everyone around it."

It is well understood that Judas's body was practically baking under the sun in Jerusalem, which only speeds up the process.

"Putrefaction speeds up when the body is in a hot environment, which is why human remains are often kept in refrigerators until the time of their burial" (LiveScience).
dcba9876 · 41-45, M
@walabby Sorry, I misinterpreted you. What evidence have you that this was a fabrication?

Also, from my statement above about both texts, unless you're willing to remain ignorant to what I'm saying, is without contradiction.
walabby · M
@dcba9876 "Could be a fabrication"?... 🤔
dcba9876 · 41-45, M
@walabby lol "🤔"

....Convince me; the stage is yours. I'm all eyes, brother.

@ImperialAerosolKidFromEP

Many people struggle with apparent contradictions in Scripture, and it's natural to seek understanding. The idea that the Holy Spirit inspired the Bible through human authors, confirms that the text is without error or contradiction in its original form:

2 Timothy 3:16-17, which says:

"All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work."


Another relevant verse is 2 Peter 1:20-21, which says:

"Knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."


These verses highlight the divine inspiration and guidance behind the writing of Scripture.

Assumed contradictions often arise from our limited understanding or interpretation. Sometimes, what seems like a contradiction, can be resolved through deeper study, historical context, or a fresh perspective. Others might see the same issue as a deliberate literary device or a complex truth that requires nuance.
Charity · 61-69
This is been the first thing I see each time I come on this site, so I decided to give you someone else's perspect on how Judas died! And their views of understanding the Greek word for hanged.

[media=https://youtu.be/i9vIMWNq884?si=m2LN3hZcrFOI6rsN]

[media=https://youtu.be/Qpml1IXa31I?si=sbu-UD8qSAqa0FHs]
Charity · 61-69
@dcba9876
Hello, I don't have an opinion on whether Judas hanged himself or he was killed and hanging himself was a cover-up and protection.

I can see it both ways, Judas regret for what he's done, he repented, but his sorrow was so great and maybe a little fear, he hung himself and his body hung until it swole and burst open, which would have at least taken two daysormaybe a Pharisee killed him out of fear / maybe one or two disciples in retaliation.

Then I ask why didn't any of the Jewish people take the body down, with either way of death, they were not supposed to leave a body hanging or any dead body out overnight. They were supposed to bury bodies before sunset. Somewhat of a standstill.

Never have been able to get links to work on this site.

How Soon Must A Dead Person Be Buried According To Judaism And Why? - Jew in the City https://share.google/sJ6nJhk96cX3w2gkb

Did early Jews insist corpses be buried pre-sunset? https://share.google/mOqPyqMO2GKbBwGjB


The Late Pastor Murray studied ancient Greek and Latin and often used Strong's Concordance and it seemed that he made references especially to the Greek word for hanged meant to choke.

Thank you for the lesson, I've heard it, I've read it and my opinion is any ancient language is what the original translators passed down, their translations are their opinions of what any word meant and their usage of it.
dcba9876 · 41-45, M
@Charity appreciate the links. I will check them out. Is Arnold Murray a favorite pastor of yours? Thanks.
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I think we have to go by what Matthew 27:5 says:

"And he threw down the pieces of silver into the temple and departed, and he went and hanged himself."

This verse describes Judas' actions after betraying Jesus, where he returns the silver pieces and takes his own life by hanging.
@dcba9876 You are most welcome. Yes, it's a little weird how some of those verses were stated and vague. They don't really give us much information, and perhaps that's because the Lord wanted to make sure that the emphasis was placed where it needed to be placed in order to learn the lesson or to bring out special emphasis for clarity. It was a pleasure discussing these things with you. God bless you.
dcba9876 · 41-45, M
@LadyGrace Absolutely, my friend. Totally. God bless you, too! 👋
@dcba9876 ❤🤗🙏
Adstar · 56-60, M
Not a contradiction..

The 30 pieces of silver was still owned by Judas.. It was blood money so the temple could never take the money because they considered it cursed.. Judas did go to the potters field and hanged himself in a tree.. Now land is considered cursed if a dead body hangs over it during a Sabbath day..

This is why the followers of Jesus quickly took His body down off the cross and placed it in a tomb to make sure it was not still hanging out on the high sabbath day.. Judas however was not taken down and so no one wanted to touch him because he became a curse he was hanging in the tree on the sabbath day..

The temples priests gave the 30 pieces of silver to buy the land from the potter. As compensation for the land that was now cursed.. The 30 silver pieces was still judases money and therefore the Field then became the property of judas even though he was dead.. The body of Judas slowly rotted and it reached a point of the rope cutting though his rotting neck and so the decomposing corpse fell out of the tree to the ground.. The weakened state of the body caused it to burst open on impact..

So both accounts are true.. One simply adds more detail to the account..
dcba9876 · 41-45, M
@Adstar that's very interesting to think about, especially the statement about the rope cutting through his neck due to the weight of the decomposed corpse. 🤔
AngelUnforgiven · 51-55, F
You know what I always wondered, why don't we hear of anyone else whose last name is Iscariot? I've never heard of anyone else with that last name.
@AngelUnforgiven omg.


Youre SO right !😂


Maybe its like Hitler🤔
This message was deleted by its author.
@AngelUnforgiven "Iscariot" is believed to be a surname or a descriptor for Judas, one of Jesus' twelve apostles who betrayed Him. The meaning and origin of the term "Iscariot" is still debated among scholars. Some think it might refer to Judas' hometown or family lineage.
hippyjoe1955 · 70-79, M
Imagine a tree on the edge of a cliff. Judas hanged himself on a branch that was too weak to hold his weight so when it broke he fell down the cliff. I will spare the gory details.
@hippyjoe1955 quite like a lot of "contractions" in the Bible, they are not mutually exclusive
hippyjoe1955 · 70-79, M
@ImperialAerosolKidFromEP exactly. Ever taken eye witness statements before?
walabby · M
Yep. One of a plethora...
Dog sleigh accident
MartinTheFirst · 26-30, M
Nope, just a bit more poetic in acts and literal in matthew
ChipmunkErnie · 70-79, M
The Bible notoriously is self-contradicting. That's why ya needs "faith".
MasterLee · 56-60, M
He was a myth. Whatever you prefer.

 
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