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NerdyPotato · M
Jokersswild · 22-25
@NerdyPotato Did you read the words of Jesus? The bible isn't one book, ya know.
NerdyPotato · M
@Jokersswild Jesus was pretty cool and had good advice, whether it's fiction or not. I wish Christians followed that. But God is objectively a monster, if anything of it is real.
Diotrephes · 70-79, M
@Jokersswild
Reading the words of Jesus is just like reading the words of any other character in any book. They are just what the writer wrote. So, what you are doing is trusting the writer because there is no objective evidence that the character he is writing about ever existed and, if he did, that he said what the writer wrote. And who was there in real life to record what the Jesus character said or did when he was alone? The answer: NO ONE.
Did you read the words of Jesus? The bible isn't one book, ya know.
Reading the words of Jesus is just like reading the words of any other character in any book. They are just what the writer wrote. So, what you are doing is trusting the writer because there is no objective evidence that the character he is writing about ever existed and, if he did, that he said what the writer wrote. And who was there in real life to record what the Jesus character said or did when he was alone? The answer: NO ONE.
Diotrephes · 70-79, M
@NerdyPotato
Jesus said that people should engage in self-mutilation by cutting off their body parts and gouging out their eyes to keep from sinning. That sounds like some lousy advice to me.
The God character tells people to kill babies without a second thought. And he hates people for what their ancestors did, not for what they do.
Jesus was pretty cool and had good advice, whether it's fiction or not. I wish Christians followed that. But God is objectively a monster, if anything of it is real.
Jesus said that people should engage in self-mutilation by cutting off their body parts and gouging out their eyes to keep from sinning. That sounds like some lousy advice to me.
The God character tells people to kill babies without a second thought. And he hates people for what their ancestors did, not for what they do.
NerdyPotato · M
@Diotrephes Jesus was far from perfect as well, but the world would be a better place if we lifted each other up to thrive together instead of kicking each other down to get out on top of mediocrity.
Jokersswild · 22-25
@Diotrephes I hear you, and you're right. That’s also one of my points as well: when people say, "Thus saith the Lord," what they mean is, "Thus saith the writer who claimed God said it."
When it comes to Jesus, though, we have a bit more to go on. His words were heard by multiple witnesses, mainly the 12 disciples. The four Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, are essentially four different historical accounts. If the early followers had conspired to invent the entire story, someone from that time would have exposed it. Christianity couldn’t have sprouted out of nowhere. And if Jesus didn't say those words, surely, the other disciples would have called out the writers of the Gospels.
Beyond the Bible, we also have first century sources like the Jewish historian Josephus. He wasn’t a Christian, so he had no reason to promote Jesus or Christianity, especially considering Christianity was seen as a rival to Judaism at the time. Then there’s the Roman historian Tacitus (non-Christian), who, in his Annals (116 AD), references Jesus’ trial under Pontius Pilate.
The Great Fire of Rome in 64 AD and the persecution of Christians under Emperor Nero also confirm the presence and influence of the Christian movement in the first century.
We also have the Catacombs of Rome, like those of Priscilla and Callixtus, they contain Christian symbols and artwork.
I can understand if you don't believe Jesus walked on water or performed miracles, but the man existed.
When it comes to Jesus, though, we have a bit more to go on. His words were heard by multiple witnesses, mainly the 12 disciples. The four Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, are essentially four different historical accounts. If the early followers had conspired to invent the entire story, someone from that time would have exposed it. Christianity couldn’t have sprouted out of nowhere. And if Jesus didn't say those words, surely, the other disciples would have called out the writers of the Gospels.
Beyond the Bible, we also have first century sources like the Jewish historian Josephus. He wasn’t a Christian, so he had no reason to promote Jesus or Christianity, especially considering Christianity was seen as a rival to Judaism at the time. Then there’s the Roman historian Tacitus (non-Christian), who, in his Annals (116 AD), references Jesus’ trial under Pontius Pilate.
The Great Fire of Rome in 64 AD and the persecution of Christians under Emperor Nero also confirm the presence and influence of the Christian movement in the first century.
We also have the Catacombs of Rome, like those of Priscilla and Callixtus, they contain Christian symbols and artwork.
I can understand if you don't believe Jesus walked on water or performed miracles, but the man existed.
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LordShadowfire · 46-50, M
@Jokersswild I agree there was almost certainly a man named Yeshua who was nailed to a piece of wood for saying how nice it would be if everyone was nicer to each other. It's just unfortunately he got tacked on to a religion full of all sorts of nastiness.