The Devil and God

@SW-User Just to add, to show this whole subject has various "issues" as far as Christianity is concerned, a couple of excerpts from a dialogue between Thomas Merton (Catholic) and D T Suzuki (zen) The dialogue can be found in Merton's book "Zen and the Birds of Appetite" as the last section, "Wisdom in Emptiness".

Thomas Merton:-

[i]In cautiously walking around the distinction between “God and Godhead” I am simply avoiding a thorny theological problem. This distinction.........has been technically condemned by the Church.[/i]

Merton has to keep looking over his shoulder at the Catholic censors. The days of racks and thumbscrews are fortunately long gone, but one has to remain circumspect.....😀

Suzuki:-

[i]Father Merton’s emptiness, when he uses this term, does not go far and deep enough, I am afraid. I do not know who first made the distinction between the Godhead and God as Creator. This distinction is strikingly illustrative. Father Merton’s emptiness is still on the level of God as Creator and does not go up to the Godhead...... In my view, this way of interpreting “suchness” is the emptiness of God as Creator, and not of the Godhead. Zen emptiness is not the emptiness of nothingness, but the emptiness of fullness in which there is “no gain, no loss, no increase, no decrease,” in which this equation takes place: zero = infinity. The Godhead is no other than this equation.[/i]

All clever stuff if you like that sort of thing (😀) but it does lead to different ideas of eschatology (the last things) Suzuki advocates an eschatology of the present moment, while Merton remains looking ahead to some future fulfilment and revelation.

(Dogen, a zen man, would seem in ways to reconcile these two views - but I'll leave it for now)

@SW-User the Isaiah verse is perfect. The Creator does it all. No devil required

@pdxlinux I hope it's not "Lets make the Bible as little supernatural as possible"

@BritishFailedAesthetic i like what you are saying, because it has already happened, and that's not a bad thing. you want to stick your head in the sand and avoid it. life has changed tremendously from the time that the Bible was written. this word "supernatural" itself is a big giveaway --- when you use this word to describe an event, you are implying that it did not happen in a falsifiable, repeatable way. I don't think that you see yourself clearly, as I do. You can't put the genie back in the bottle. You can't put the toothpaste back into the tube. If you feel that this activity has meaning for your life, please do continue with that. Whether or not you like it, this is a fact: everyone is atheist. But that word by itself in my opinion, is not descriptive of what people are really thinking. Most people would say "i'm agnostic" instead of "i'm atheist." But even that does not describe people accurately and precisely. The word "ignostic" or "igtheist" has more relevance. I invite you to read about that on wikipedia. yes i'm xtian. that does not mean that i promote ignorance or walk around on eggshells to coddle anyone's feelings. including yours even though i think that we have much in common. this comment reply is not relevant to the OP, but rather the comment that British Failed Aesthete made. i am happy to delete it and if you wish to delete it, please do.

@pdxlinux Spoken like a true USSR style priest.

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@Iwantyourhotwife i personally find the idea of the devil irrelevant. We are free to choose what we do either good or bad. I don't believe there is a being trying to get our soul. But as a figure of speech we all have our own personal demons. Not the same to me