I Can't Stand It When People Fight Over Religion

I see little point in debating those with fundamental religious beliefs since most are fanatical and cannot accept scientific reasoning over their faith.
I don't need faith in science I just let the logic prevail.

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ArishMell · 70-79, M

The more you try to explain the flaws and lack of logic in their arguments, the more defensive they become, sometimes aggressively so.

What many of them seem to have in common though, is any ability to explain firstly [i]why[/i] they believe as they do, and secondly why at least some so desperately want everyone else to obey them.

Not just religion either. It's much like that with the Bermuda Triangle / Flat Earth / No Gravity / Geocentric Universe / Daniken-fans / political-conspiracy types too. Some even conflate their mystic mish-mash with real-world politics and/or religion - while failing to see the irony of using the Internet to attack science!

And worse, as we saw with Alex Jones recently and now some similar liar and his followers in Britain, trying to bully and call "hoaxers", the bereaved or the injured survivors, of the nail-bomb attack on the Manchester Arena a few years ago.

.....

Not new though.

Just as the Internet makes life easy for the above prunes, so the development of printing made it very easy for the 15C German cleric, Heinrich Kramer, to disseminate his book [i]Malleus Malificarum.[/i] Although condemned by leading theologians of the time as inciting illegal and amoral acts, it became an inspiration and manual across much of Europe for the "witchcraft" panic and appalling persecution of so-called "witches", for the next two or three hundred years.

At least the 19C, Sir Arthur Conan-Doyle was relatively harmless in his nonsense... The [i]Sherlock Holmes[/i] writer was the one responsible for building up the Mary Celest story (including French-ifying the ship's name) and forcing the "Cottingley Fairies" practical joke far beyond its perpetrators' control.

damselfly · 100+, F

@ArishMell I figure adherence to any religion is something to do with the herd instinct, and "belonging." Largely benign, comforting and harmless, But manipulative predators are drawn to careèrs in the clergy. It gives them a ready-made flock fearful of going against anyone with qualifications to call themselves the mouthpiece of God - which further explains why women's voices are heavily discouraged/silenced.
It doesnt matter much (to a God) if youre a believer or not so long as you play nice

ArishMell · 70-79, M

@damselfly Yes, I think so too! The worst "clergy" are probably the self-appointed ones in some of the independent sects... or cults. They have no central moderators; or if they do, the moderators are at least as bad..

God is not described as "male" for nothing.

Pfuzylogic · M

@ArishMell
God is described as male because Jesus was male, the second Adam.

damselfly · 100+, F

@Pfuzylogic god was refeŕred to as male before Jesus

ArishMell · 70-79, M

@Pfuzylogic Other way round. The Adam myth was written anything between about 500 and 200 years before Jesus, but might have roots much older still.

If the fragmentary historical rather than parable bits are a guide, the Hebrews were a patriarchal society so naturally portrayed God and Adam as male; and it would have been natural in their descendents' Judaic culture for Jesus, his disciples (local tradesmen) and the apostles to have been men. Similarly with the Temple elders.

Though we cannot say if the ancient tribal elders imagined this would excuse the notion of male superiority over women still lingering more than 2500 years in their future!

Pfuzylogic · M

@ArishMell
It had nothing to do with the concept of male superiority. I am not sure where you got that from. The Hebrews were a Patriarchal society but you didn’t find a hint of disregard to women from the Jesus, the Creator of the universe.

Pfuzylogic · M

@damselfly
Jesus was from the beginning.
i don’t see how my God was referred that way before the Creator.

ArishMell · 70-79, M

@Pfuzylogic I was taught God created the universe and fathered Jesus much later, but that aside, I know Jesus respected women.

The sad thing is that all the Abrahamic religions have used their texts, starting with what became the Torah and Old Testament, for mysogyny. That may well not be God's way but of male-led religious authorities.

Pfuzylogic · M

@ArishMell
God started with Adam made from the clay of the earth, his name means as much. Woman was made out of man and not considered by Adam to be less than him. She was made from him. Eve means “Mother of all living”.
Jesus is the second Adam 1 Cor. 15:45 not made from the Earth but of heaven.
Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit, one part of the Trinity.
Jesus was a Creator in the Creation of Genesis.

ArishMell · 70-79, M

@Pfuzylogic It's only that last sentence of your that differs from what I'd been taught about the religion.

The Genesis story I knew does not include Jesus at all, although the Bible later claims the ancient Hebrew prophets had forecast Him in their future.

I do not know what the relationship between Judaism and Jesus is, but the OT and the Torah are compiled from the same pre-Christ books. They do not use all the same books, do not put them in the same order; and both compilations omit quite a number of other books known now only as fragments.

Islam uses the same pre-Christian, Hebrew roots, but sticks to their original monotheism. It regards Jesus as a particularly talented teacher but not divine, to protect God's uniqueness and mystery.

damselfly · 100+, F

@ArishMell the relationship betwèn Jesus and Judaism is that Jesus, and his earthly parents, were Jews

ArishMell · 70-79, M

@damselfly Yes, they were, and so were his disciples and the early apostles - it was more by history that their ideas became a new religion, not simply a fairly minor Jewish sect.

The major factor encouraging that was probably the Romans' eventual conversion; with their huge empire then letting Christianity spread across Europe.

It is the Judaic teaching that later developed about Jesus I meant, and I do not know what that is.