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I Have a Question

So you're an American. Can you explain to me why you feel you should have the right to own an assault rifle like the AR-15?
As an American you have the right to own a gun but shouldn't there be limits on what kind of gun you can own?
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A number of people ask why Americans should have the right to own an AR-15.

Americans don't need to justify this. It's a right guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment. But let's forget that for now.

Within the question you pose above is the underlying assumption that the AR-15 is somehow more dangerous than other types of firearms, and therefore be banned or heavily restricted. Is that correct?

If so, what is it about the AR-15 that makes it too dangerous to own?
MetalGreymon · 36-40, M
Well the right to bear arms as part of a citizen's militia is guaranteed. You'd have to be pretty liberal with that amendment to interpret it as "any weapon i want".

I admit that i don't know much about guns. What i do know is that it's a military grade weapon designed for effectively killing people. As far as i know the only real difference between it and the m16 is that it's not fully automatic.

It's designed to kill lots of people and customizable to make it even more effective.
Isn't there a reason it's such a popular weapon for mass shooters?
@UnparalleledMonster: the 2nd Amendment guarantees individuals the right to keep and bear arms. It's not limited to militia. Read the SCOTUS opinion in Heller v. DC (2008) Or even USA v. Miller (1939).

Of course, there are many restrictions on the types of arms. Beware...the SCOTUS opinion in USA v. Miller challenges some gun control premises. In that case, it was determined that short barrel shotguns were not protected under the 2A because they had no practical military use. Based on USA v. Miller, I can argue that civilians should not be restricted from owning M-16s. Rest assured, I am not suggesting that. ☺

OK, I understand you may not know a lot about firearms. I think that is where gun rights advocates differ greatly from gun control activists. Take a look at these two rifles in the picture below:


Many gun control advocates assume rifle #2 is more dangerous than rifle #1. However, they are virtually the same. #1 is the Ruger Mini-14 Ranch Rifle. #2 is the Ruger Mini-14 Tactical Rifle. They look different, but are functionally identical. They use the same magazine, and could easily be interchanged.

If you consider the laws banning the assault weapons, #1 is legal, but #2 is banned. Yet they are equally lethal. #2 simply looks more frightening due to it's para-military features.

There is a very significant difference between semi-automatic and select fire capabilities (full auto and multi-round bursts). The US military has never issued AR-15s. Regardless of semi-auto only v. select fire, most AR-15s do not meet military specifications regardless.

Oddly too...there are a number of handguns, shotguns and bolt action rifles that are used currently by the US military, which are legal for civilian ownership. No one is suggesting a ban of those firearms.

So...why the AR-15?

You've mentioned above. There is a notion that an AR-15 is a killing machine, a weapon of war, and is designed only to kill lots of people. These are really gun control marketing tag lines.

What is it about the AR-15 or an AK-47 that makes them deadlier than say a semi-automatic pistol or shotgun? This is the question I've not seen effectively answered.

The vast majority of firearm homicides, including mass shootings, are actually committed with handguns. Concealabilty is the feature making a handgun attractive in the commission of a crime.

I'm not ignoring those instances in which a para-military rifle has been used.

But in those cases where a rifle such as an AR-15 was used...did using an AR-15 make the situation worse than if the shooter uses a different type of firearm?

The very thought of this question turns my stomach, but I think we need to discuss it. Remember the Virginia Tech mass murder? The shooter used a Glock 19, 9mm handgun. He fire 170 rounds, emptying 17, ten round magazines, killing over 30 people, and then killed himself. One of the Columbine shooters used a Hi Point 995 rifle with 10 round magazines...firing 96 rounds before shooting himself.

The issue with mass shootings isn't magazine capacity. It literally takes 2 to 3 seconds to change magazines on a semi-automatic rifle (even less with a handgun). The shooter simply brings more magazines with him and there simply is no time to effective respond to the pause as magazines are exchanged. I know that doesn't provide much comfort, but these are logistical facts.

The issue is that the mass shooter does not stop until someone else stops them. That's why they go to crowded venues where it's unlikely that someone else is armed. It means they have several minutes to shoot until police arrive. And there have been a few cases in which a possible mass shooting was thwarted by a civilian carrying a gun. But these instances did not escalate.

You might even be thinking that there simply is no good reason for a civilian to own an AR-15. Actually, there are.

They are excellent for home defense. Please hear me out...

They are light weight, relatively simple to use, and the lack heavy recoil makes a follow up shot easier (as opposed to a shotgun for example). People are generally much more accurate with a shoulder fired firearm than with a handgun.

The .223 caliber round less likely to over penetrate than almost any other caliber. At velocities in excess of 2500 feet per second, the .223 will tumble and break apart once it has struck something. A .223 is unlikely to penetrate more than 3 layers of sheet rock. And if you use what are known as "home defense" rounds...designed specifically to prevent over penetration...the likelihood of hitting something unintended is reduced even further.

But here is the thing about home defense many people don't consider. Home invasions happen on a daily basis and are far more common than mass shootings. The average home invasion involves 3 perpetrators. They may be armed.

The best reason for owning an AR-15 is that it is excellent against multiple assailants, i.e., the home invasion scenario.

If you think about mass shooters...their victims are almost always unarmed. The reality is that they reload and continue shooting regardless of the type of firearm or capacity limitations of the magazine. The AR-15 does not make the shooter more lethal.

I could go on, but I've probably provided too much to digest.
MetalGreymon · 36-40, M
@BizSuitStacy:

All i take away from that is that there are other guns that the average citizen shouldn't be allowed to own and that it's fucked up that guns are so prevalent in the US. Are there any other developed nations that even approach the number of mass shootings that occur in the US?

The a-15 series of gun is a popular choice for people who want to kill innocent people.
So why should your "right" to have an assault rifle be more important than innocent human lives?
After all, it's the second AMENDMENT. That is to say, an alteration from the original constitution.
The constitution and the law change. The fact that it is currently on the books is not really an argument that it SHOULD be...
@UnparalleledMonster:

Actually, there are other developed countries in the world with more firearm homicides and mass shootings.

Brazil, Venezuela, and Mexico admit it in their firearm homicide stats to the UN. They rank #1, 2 and 3 resoectively worldwide.

Countries like China, won't even provide the data to the UN...as the gov't massacres their citizens via firearm regularly. It is estimated that there are more homicides in Russia than the US...but apparently most of those murders are committed with something other than a firearm.

There are at least 50 other countries that probably don't fit into the convenient classfication of "developed" with higher homicide rates than the US. And guns are banned in those countries.

Illogical cause and effect...the belief that guns mean lead to more killings. The motivation to kill is not simply due the availability of guns.

Your statement that the AR-15 is a "popular choice" for those who want to kill innocent people is flat out wrong.

Per Dianne Feinstein, the queen of the Assault Weapons ban, has actually calculated that, on average, less than 50 people are murdered with an assault weapon each year. An AR-15 is a subset of that total. That's about 0.5% of all firearm homicides each year.

For additional perspective, you are 30 times more likely to be murdered with a knife. You are more likely to be bludgeoned with a bat. You are more likely to be murdered by someone using their fists or feet. Hell, you are more likely to be killed by bees (assuming you're allergic).

But when a shooter uses an AR-15 or AK-47...the media goes on a frenzy.

Why should my right to own an AR-15 usurp the rights of innocent people? It doesn't. Everyone in the US has the same right to bear arms, unless there are specific laws at the state or local level.

How does a law abiding citizen's ownership of an AR-15 put innocent people at risk? My firearms are secured. The only people at risk are those who break into my home. I fail to see the rationale in your position.

If you take the time to review state by state homicide statistics from the FBI...and then look at the state by state guns laws, you'll find no correlation between the strength of the law vs. the amount of crime. Gun crime is highly concentrated within America's inner cities where gangs and drugs are prevalent. Gun ownership is irrelevant.

Violence is a socio-economic issue...not a gun availability issue.

If you don't like the 2A...cool. What I find interesting is the most outspoken against the 2A seem to be non-Americans. Not really your decision, is it?
MetalGreymon · 36-40, M
@BizSuitStacy:

Yeah, yeah. How often does someone kill 14 people with a knife or a bat?
That's what i thought.

Violence is a socio-economic issue...not a gun availability issue.

Gun violence is a gun availability issue. And gun violence allows people to kill lots of people quickly.

The issue is not that law abiding citizens can get assault weapons. The issue is that ANYONE can get assault weapons easily.

So answer the question: why is your "right" to own an assault weapon more important than innocent lives?