Is gender over?

Gender is biological. As much as society want to pretend it doesn't exist, it does and always will.

I think it will take a lot, lot longer than 20 years.. i think we will see improvements for sure and less discrimination against people in terms of gender.. BUT there is still so much everyday sexism and discrimination, often without logic, that most of us just accept most of it without question... for instance women are still discriminated against in terms of top jobs JUST because they are women... uni students were asked to choose the best candidate for a certain job.. the same credentials were used but one was given a male name and one a female... needless to say men and women discriminated in favour of men getting the job.. .they thought or perceived him to be the better candidate even when all things were equal in terms of qualifications and experience.. Women were also marked down for the same qualities that made men more likely to get the job.. the same trait such as "i enjoy making all the decisions" was seen as a good thing in men but a bad thing in women... so for the same attribute women were facing discrimination...
For me as a normal person... i see so much sexism. everyday sexism as in that isnt intended to offend.. but is said without thought.. women accept it without question, (so used to it are we!) and men dish it out without even thinking it is offensive.. One example was... in a newsagent shop i bought a tv guide - i didnt see the price because it was hard to see and tucked away in the corner... When i learned the price and said i didnt want the item because it is too expensive.. the man behind the counter made the assumption that i was too ditzy to loook at the price... He truly wouldnt have said that to a man.. but thought it was ok to say to a woman... He meant no harm and was laughing- sigh.
SO many things women put up wth and so much so that they dont question or even think about what it means..

Carpediem, your sex is biological. Gender is taught.

I'd like to think gender would become less of a deal but we will see. I think socially people are heading that way in America. Despite the massive news coverage of the opposite i think the fact that so many people are upset and oppose whenever state governments try to impose the traditional ideas of gender and their implications on its people says that there is a change happening. But I see no guarantee that such changes would continue. I'm more hopeful of this generation though than any one in the past because unlike the past we can actually expose ourselves to new people and new ideas easier than ever so theres really no excuse to be ignorant outside of willing yourself to be so.

@KatherineArch probably, but again the question is whether it will be more important than eye colour! The thread I just posted a link to assumes that if a woman creates an account as a male, or vice versa, they're pretending to be something fundamentally different from who they really are. Nobody would say that about someone with blue eyes who created a persona with brown eyes or vice versa. I do think it is possible that gender will become just as interesting but unimportant as eye colour, though we're not there yet.

I am still hoping to get an email from you with more of your story btw?

@KatherineArch you can message me at tsimringbulkes@gmail.com If you do, just mention it here and I'll check my inbox.

There is supposed to be a private message feature on this site soon, so we can use the little envelope icon at the top of the screen, but it is not working yet (leading to a great deal of intimacy and drama in public!)

I would love to know more of your story.

Dear cinnamon I think that the clothes a person wears should be a matter of personal choice not so much based on societies demands I agree to an extent that gender in this day and age is considered more or less a personal decision based on how one defines oneself and as you have commented before that your sex is biological and to a point I somewhat agree with you but technically sex and gender is one in the same but these days gender is defined as how you feel but a man who surgically becomes a women is technically still a man biologically

That's an interesting question. If the trend of gender equality and the need for non-binary descriptions continues, it only needs to be included in forms to determine how to address someone. If that is the only reason, I think it will only be a matter of time before people come up with a unisex pronoun though.

No I agree with carpedium gender will always exsist and is technically chosen by god at the time of conception you are born biologically either male or female,very rarely their are those of course born as both but that is a very rare instance ,it is technilogical advancements and personal choice that allows an individual to choose to surgically become the opposite sex or I guess the politically correct term these days is transgender and their are those straight men like me that just like to dress the part but not actually become transgender. I personally wear dresses,tights and highheels in private because it relaxes me,for me it started as a way to help me better understand women but now I do it like I said too destress and relax because women's clothes to me are more comfortable than men's clothes and women have so many style,design and material choices.

Definitely not where I live. You can face gender-based discrimination in many fields. Most of it is aimed at women but men are not omitted. If you're a guy and you apply for a job as a waiter in certain bars or even as a shop-assistant with decorative items you might not get it. Why? Because "females appear nicer and communicate in more pleasant manner". (friend's experience).
Anyway, I think that the amount of sexism on the Internet proves that people in this world are far away from accepting each other as persons whose gender is irrelevant.

I think gender is learned/or relearned in my case. I was born with an intersex condition that was "corrected" when I was a teenager. Of course I was lucky to choose what was best for me. I think it is such a deeply personal thing, and there is not a one size fits all answer. I would message you my views and experiences but I have no idea if this site even has a messaging feature...

@Quizling yes. And once you start studying history and different cultures it's even more obvious that what looks masculine or feminine in one time or place can be the exact opposite in another.

Carpediem, I understand. I'm not trying to get into a big debate either. It does get tiring to argue on the big current event topics.
My reply is just about semantics. Gender IS behavior and standards based on a person's sex and what society decides is appropriate for each one. Sex is based on your DNA, so even after a surgery, a person who was male still has the Y chromosome and a person who was female still lacks it. That can't change. Not saying I agree or disagree when it comes to transgender topics but, like I said, just semantics.

Since I have been both male and female, I don't think that gender is "over" by a long shot! I wish I could figure out how to message on here to expand on my experience and answer any questions

I like fashion freedom. Women can wear almost anything they like - from either side of the store - while men get laughed at, shunned, etc if they dare wear anything vaguely outside the social 'norm' for menswear. I wear heels most of the time. I've never had any comments, and most people don't even notice, but I know I get a few looks and smiles (and sniggers from teenage girls).

@Cinnamon - I've had that problem a lot, I don't like sports, prefer classical music to RnB, and I've never wolf-whistled anyone! lol

@Plobey yes, and there already are a few unisex pronouns around. Most often I hear "they" used in the singular. I think that was already around informally before people became more aware of gender variety. There are also invented words like "ze" (although personally I find that one difficult because it sounds just like the German or Yiddish word for "she"). There are other languages that have never distinguished male and female in pronouns. English used to have a singular and plural "you" (thou / you) and that disappeared so the gender distinction could certainly disappear as well.

This thread is evidence that gender isn't over yet...
http://similarworlds.com/story?fid=7900480&tid=8578&sort=1&name=I-Hate-Fake-People

In 20 years gender will probably be wiped. Label wise anyway

@sludgefeast oooh I want to hear more of your thoughts about gender and everything else

I have no idea how you choose clothes now, let alone in 20 years 😋

Sorry! I will send you a quick message in a sec.

TheCoolestCat which is weird. Cause I can wear jeans and a button-down shirt, which once upon a time would have been 100% man's clothes, and nobody laughs (some people whistle, but that's another story ;) ) So why is the thought of you wearing a dress, still unusual?

Cinnamon, In Hungarian he and she are only 1 word so it makes no difference between genders. But I never saw any bearded mothers here :)

@Highonheels so am I hearing you right that although you believe that gender is a biological fact for most people, you don't agree with society's conventions about male and female roles, like who wears which clothing?

@Quizling I agree with you about that; the expectations and restrictions associated with gender are often bad for men too. Another example is how hard some guys struggle to be "real men" when those stereotypes don't fit them at all...

@mic112255 I'm with you on that and a site like this is great for meeting all kinds of different people with different experiences and ways of seeing the world.

There is inequality on both sides to be fair... Courts usually siding with mothers for custody being one just example

Erik, so the pronoun is the long sound? Just want to make sure I am getting this right before I introduce it into the English language :)

@adaydreambeliever yes, those are great examples of the "little" ways that women are still getting the short end of the stick -- which add up to something very big. A lot still needs to change if equality is going to become real!

@sludgefeast I see you have a lot of stories posted so I will likely be turning up with questions there.

well i dont think ill have that option ANY time within the near future. i live in the south so we kinda have to be tough around here. lol

it seems to be over because you see so many styles now. be a free spirit and live your life the way you want to

LSeule and Carpediem even physically things are more complicated. There are people born with penises who don't have Y chromosomes and people born with vaginas who do. "About 1 in 20,000 men has no Y chromosome, instead having 2 Xs. This means that in the United States there are about 7,500 men without a Y chromosome. The equivalent situation - females who have XY instead of XX chromosomes - can occur for a variety of reasons and overall is similar in frequency." Dr. Charmian Quigley quoted at Intersex Society of North America, http://www.isna.org/faq/y_chromosome.

Yes, like that. We have 2 of them: ö and ő. One is shorter, the other is longer.

OK everyone, no more she or he in English, we are borrowing "ő" from Hungarian! If you don't know how to pronounce it ask Erik2000, ő knows! :)

Bigbear I definitely think there are regional variations with all of this! But you were mentioning in another post standing up for trans friends, weren't you? So things are not all that monolithic where you are either...

@Erik2000 yay! Hungarian is setting an example as a gender-neutral language! :) What is the he/she pronoun in Hungarian?

Not easy :)
A bit like the sound in bird but longer. And only the vowel.

I think that gender in some form will always be around, even if someone identifies as gender variant.

PlumBerries Haha! Depends what side of the store they come from.

ő
It is a Hungarian letter, doesn't exist in English :)

I haven't shopped in the men's section for clothes before so I couldn't say lol

@Bigbear - Go visit a uni campus Bear, lol... I had a hard time telling who was who :)

OK sludgefeast once and for all I am not a transvestite or transgender nor do I want to be I love being a man and doing manly things but I also like enjoying my feminine side when the mood strikes I see it as having the best of both worlds your perception is what it is and you don't even know me personally so you cannot truely define me as a person until you get to know me personally

@erik2000 how do you pronounce it?