I Have a Question
So you don't believe humans evolved.
Why?
Explain your reasoning.
Why?
Explain your reasoning.
36-40, M
This page is a permanent link to the reply below and its nested replies. See all post replies »
SW-User
The question is evolve from what/where to be what we are? Do u have evidence to prove it that we did evolve? Being scientific raised more questions than explanation about human evolution.
The fossils are the best evidence we have got for so far but they can't complete the picture since there is so much missing in between each species evolution and how they are linked? We simply can not explain evolution by hiding behind the time it takes for species to evolve. Each species evolution is a result of an geological "Event"; an ecological, environmental requirement made species to get adjust to it, therefore, resulting in a new trait in them.
One can't explain evolution without describing the need of the evolution for a particular species. Therefore, u have to answer what were those environmental-ecological requirements, made human to evolve from their so called parent specie? If it does have evolve than why not any other species responded to that environmental change in slightly the same way if not completely? Because that environmental-ecological change clearly did worked for other species living during that "Event", which gave us intelligence, speaking skills and thinking ability for beyond just survival skills, (we human are the only specie to have this ability since other species are all about playing a limited role like its written on their DNA).
Genetically speaking, life is all related since it survives in same ecology in a limited range of temperature-pressure for almost all living species. So, having common genes is interesting but not that surprising as much as the differences. Again, its the theory which results in countless question than definite answers.
The fossils are the best evidence we have got for so far but they can't complete the picture since there is so much missing in between each species evolution and how they are linked? We simply can not explain evolution by hiding behind the time it takes for species to evolve. Each species evolution is a result of an geological "Event"; an ecological, environmental requirement made species to get adjust to it, therefore, resulting in a new trait in them.
One can't explain evolution without describing the need of the evolution for a particular species. Therefore, u have to answer what were those environmental-ecological requirements, made human to evolve from their so called parent specie? If it does have evolve than why not any other species responded to that environmental change in slightly the same way if not completely? Because that environmental-ecological change clearly did worked for other species living during that "Event", which gave us intelligence, speaking skills and thinking ability for beyond just survival skills, (we human are the only specie to have this ability since other species are all about playing a limited role like its written on their DNA).
Genetically speaking, life is all related since it survives in same ecology in a limited range of temperature-pressure for almost all living species. So, having common genes is interesting but not that surprising as much as the differences. Again, its the theory which results in countless question than definite answers.
MetalGreymon · 36-40, M
@rejuvenescence
Well there's a lot to unpack there.
There is verifiable, observable proof that genetic change and speciation occur. We can observe it in bacteria and viruses. So i assume you're referring to evidence for evolution on higher taxonomic levels.
[quote]The fossils are the best evidence we have got for so far but they can't complete the picture since there is so much missing in between each species evolution[/quote]
As to that, the fossil record IS the best evidence we have for it. I don't understand why you feel the gaps in the fossil record invalidate it as a tool for knowledge. In fact the fossil record is more than complete enough for paleontologists to show direct progression from one stage to the next. The bone morphology clearly shows the generation of certain structures (For example limbs and jaws and inner ear bones) as the evolutionary process moves from early fish, to fish to amphibians to reptiles and so on.
There are certainly gaps but they are not so huge as you seem to think.
[quote]One can't explain evolution without describing the need of the evolution for a particular species. Therefore, u have to answer what were those environmental-ecological requirements, made human to evolve from their so called parent specie?[/quote]
I'm not sure i follow. Why do we need to know the specific environmental circumstances that lead to the change in order to recognize that the change happened? I mean sure we can see obvious stuff like moving from aquatic to terrestrial environment or the lessening in insect size as oxygen levels in the atmosphere decreased. But in the end we can see that change has occurred and make educated guesses as to why. I'm not sure why you feel that is a stumbling block.
[quote]If it does have evolve than why not any other species responded to that environmental change in slightly the same way if not completely? Because that environmental-ecological change clearly did worked for other species living during that "Event", which gave us intelligence, speaking skills and thinking ability for beyond just survival skills...[/quote]
I feel this section demonstrates something of a lack of understanding on your part.
You seem to be asking why other animals didn't evolve along the same lines as humans.
Let's ignore for the moment the fact that there were other human species (neanderthals). Why on earth should other species have evolved along the same lines just because they were exposed to the same environment? Evolution happens through selecting for adaptive traits. While increased intelligence is a very adaptive quality for a complex social animal like humans, higher reasoning and social complexity isn't very important for squirrels or turtles.
[quote](we human are the only specie to have this ability since other species are all about playing a limited role like its written on their DNA)[/quote]
Well that's not very accurate. Many animals are highly instinctual but many, MANY animals (especially mammals) rely heavily on memetic transfer of information. Certainly apes, dolphins and crows are capable of behavior far more complex than simple genetic imperatives.
Sorry if some of that was unclear. Please feel free to ask specific questions
Well there's a lot to unpack there.
There is verifiable, observable proof that genetic change and speciation occur. We can observe it in bacteria and viruses. So i assume you're referring to evidence for evolution on higher taxonomic levels.
[quote]The fossils are the best evidence we have got for so far but they can't complete the picture since there is so much missing in between each species evolution[/quote]
As to that, the fossil record IS the best evidence we have for it. I don't understand why you feel the gaps in the fossil record invalidate it as a tool for knowledge. In fact the fossil record is more than complete enough for paleontologists to show direct progression from one stage to the next. The bone morphology clearly shows the generation of certain structures (For example limbs and jaws and inner ear bones) as the evolutionary process moves from early fish, to fish to amphibians to reptiles and so on.
There are certainly gaps but they are not so huge as you seem to think.
[quote]One can't explain evolution without describing the need of the evolution for a particular species. Therefore, u have to answer what were those environmental-ecological requirements, made human to evolve from their so called parent specie?[/quote]
I'm not sure i follow. Why do we need to know the specific environmental circumstances that lead to the change in order to recognize that the change happened? I mean sure we can see obvious stuff like moving from aquatic to terrestrial environment or the lessening in insect size as oxygen levels in the atmosphere decreased. But in the end we can see that change has occurred and make educated guesses as to why. I'm not sure why you feel that is a stumbling block.
[quote]If it does have evolve than why not any other species responded to that environmental change in slightly the same way if not completely? Because that environmental-ecological change clearly did worked for other species living during that "Event", which gave us intelligence, speaking skills and thinking ability for beyond just survival skills...[/quote]
I feel this section demonstrates something of a lack of understanding on your part.
You seem to be asking why other animals didn't evolve along the same lines as humans.
Let's ignore for the moment the fact that there were other human species (neanderthals). Why on earth should other species have evolved along the same lines just because they were exposed to the same environment? Evolution happens through selecting for adaptive traits. While increased intelligence is a very adaptive quality for a complex social animal like humans, higher reasoning and social complexity isn't very important for squirrels or turtles.
[quote](we human are the only specie to have this ability since other species are all about playing a limited role like its written on their DNA)[/quote]
Well that's not very accurate. Many animals are highly instinctual but many, MANY animals (especially mammals) rely heavily on memetic transfer of information. Certainly apes, dolphins and crows are capable of behavior far more complex than simple genetic imperatives.
Sorry if some of that was unclear. Please feel free to ask specific questions
SW-User
@UnparalleledMonster:
I didn't expect all animals of different genre to evolve like human. It would be stupid, right? What I refer was the fact that the parent species of our human let say champs like 99.9% genetic similarity. They are far older than we human and we human appeared in the picture far later. Here is the thing which boggles my mind.
The phase of evolution if compared with human life today, it will become 1 million years equals to one day of human life. That how slow evolution work. That's the rule you have to understand to understand how evolution works in paleontology to understand how one different species evolves.
So, We human are only here on earth like 190 thousand years?(base on the oldest skeleton found Ethiopia). which makes it few hours for work for evolution for few champs to become human. Very fast. Isn't it. Beside, exceptionally working fast for we human to evolve that particular "EVENT" of human evolution, should have lefts clues on our surroundings like rock likes and other species. Which is not found yet? If it is please share it with me.
Again, One can't explain evolution without the necessities of it for a species. We call it "Events".let me introduce a big events like permo-triassic Event. Still we do research about it. Why? Because there are lots of thing missing in it. Likewise, No one can explain a specie evolution without explaining the change in its surrounding. That's why we paleontologist run crazy doing fields looking for fossils and the rock holding that fossils to find clues. .
We have taken this subject with the our paleontologist research teachers and it gives interesting scenarios to think about. Not once, I heard my teachers or any from where I worked saying, its fact. We talk about it with a probability. You can read any research article where we use the words like "may", ",might" possibly but not that it has evolve for this particular reason. We do so to keep the space for those gaps and further research.
As far u saying we have gotten complete picture from fossil record. Every time, I went for field and looking two succession of rock layers with different fossil record with couple of millions years missing between them, made me think of, what I am referring, gaps. We have a pretty good bigger picture of evolution but we don't have fine scale picture of how evolution have worked.
As far, u referring of bacteria evolution? I have seen how inter species evolution work at first hand on much bigger animals. But, never seen two different specie interacting and giving birth to different one? We "might" never know how we have reached here since I believe answers lies beyond earth. After all, we tiny tiny fraction of such large system and looking to find facts from this dot, we called earth.
Lastly, I do agree, many animals show far complex ability for doing different tasks. but again, when a predator evolves, a vulnerable species evolves a better defensive technique against it. So, we have come to same point again, How our evolution from champs effect other species? Which should have logically?
I didn't expect all animals of different genre to evolve like human. It would be stupid, right? What I refer was the fact that the parent species of our human let say champs like 99.9% genetic similarity. They are far older than we human and we human appeared in the picture far later. Here is the thing which boggles my mind.
The phase of evolution if compared with human life today, it will become 1 million years equals to one day of human life. That how slow evolution work. That's the rule you have to understand to understand how evolution works in paleontology to understand how one different species evolves.
So, We human are only here on earth like 190 thousand years?(base on the oldest skeleton found Ethiopia). which makes it few hours for work for evolution for few champs to become human. Very fast. Isn't it. Beside, exceptionally working fast for we human to evolve that particular "EVENT" of human evolution, should have lefts clues on our surroundings like rock likes and other species. Which is not found yet? If it is please share it with me.
Again, One can't explain evolution without the necessities of it for a species. We call it "Events".let me introduce a big events like permo-triassic Event. Still we do research about it. Why? Because there are lots of thing missing in it. Likewise, No one can explain a specie evolution without explaining the change in its surrounding. That's why we paleontologist run crazy doing fields looking for fossils and the rock holding that fossils to find clues. .
We have taken this subject with the our paleontologist research teachers and it gives interesting scenarios to think about. Not once, I heard my teachers or any from where I worked saying, its fact. We talk about it with a probability. You can read any research article where we use the words like "may", ",might" possibly but not that it has evolve for this particular reason. We do so to keep the space for those gaps and further research.
As far u saying we have gotten complete picture from fossil record. Every time, I went for field and looking two succession of rock layers with different fossil record with couple of millions years missing between them, made me think of, what I am referring, gaps. We have a pretty good bigger picture of evolution but we don't have fine scale picture of how evolution have worked.
As far, u referring of bacteria evolution? I have seen how inter species evolution work at first hand on much bigger animals. But, never seen two different specie interacting and giving birth to different one? We "might" never know how we have reached here since I believe answers lies beyond earth. After all, we tiny tiny fraction of such large system and looking to find facts from this dot, we called earth.
Lastly, I do agree, many animals show far complex ability for doing different tasks. but again, when a predator evolves, a vulnerable species evolves a better defensive technique against it. So, we have come to same point again, How our evolution from champs effect other species? Which should have logically?
MetalGreymon · 36-40, M
@rejuvenescence:
[quote]Very fast. Isn't it. Beside, exceptionally working fast for we human to evolve that particular "EVENT" of human evolution, should have lefts clues on our surroundings like rock likes and other species. Which is not found yet? If it is please share it with me.[/quote]
It is very fast compared to what we believe to be the usual pace of evolution. But so what? We can see the progression in the fossil record of hominid evolution. It is recognized the the current model of evolution is not complete. That's why there is still so much research into it. The point i'm making being that not necessarily understanding why something happened doesn't trump the evidence that it did.
As to the "event" leaving traces i'm not sure what you you mean. Drastic environmental upheaval is not by any means the only way evolution occurs.
[quote], No one can explain a specie evolution without explaining the change in its surrounding.[/quote]
I think we already covered this. No you can't know exactly why a species evolved in a certain way. Of course science uses words like "may have" because that's just how we write when discussing scientific evidence.
But again, not knowing the precise reason for a morphological change doesn't mean we can't see that it took place.
As you know there are many theories as to what drove human evolution. But what we can actually observe through the fossil record is that it did happen
[quote] But, never seen two different specie interacting and giving birth to different one[/quote]
Have you ever seen a mule or a liger? Two different species mating and producing offspring. But again i assume you're referring to higher taxanomic levels and that's not how evolution works
[quote]We have a pretty good bigger picture of evolution but we don't have fine scale picture of how evolution have worked. [/quote]
...yes but we do have the broader picture of how it works. So?
[quote]How our evolution from champs effect other species? Which should have logically?[/quote]
What makes you think it hasn't?
How would we know?
I mean as for a species being affected by humans there is the obvious example of dogs. Used to be wolves and now they're pets who have changed morphologically and behaviorally as a result of humans
[quote]Very fast. Isn't it. Beside, exceptionally working fast for we human to evolve that particular "EVENT" of human evolution, should have lefts clues on our surroundings like rock likes and other species. Which is not found yet? If it is please share it with me.[/quote]
It is very fast compared to what we believe to be the usual pace of evolution. But so what? We can see the progression in the fossil record of hominid evolution. It is recognized the the current model of evolution is not complete. That's why there is still so much research into it. The point i'm making being that not necessarily understanding why something happened doesn't trump the evidence that it did.
As to the "event" leaving traces i'm not sure what you you mean. Drastic environmental upheaval is not by any means the only way evolution occurs.
[quote], No one can explain a specie evolution without explaining the change in its surrounding.[/quote]
I think we already covered this. No you can't know exactly why a species evolved in a certain way. Of course science uses words like "may have" because that's just how we write when discussing scientific evidence.
But again, not knowing the precise reason for a morphological change doesn't mean we can't see that it took place.
As you know there are many theories as to what drove human evolution. But what we can actually observe through the fossil record is that it did happen
[quote] But, never seen two different specie interacting and giving birth to different one[/quote]
Have you ever seen a mule or a liger? Two different species mating and producing offspring. But again i assume you're referring to higher taxanomic levels and that's not how evolution works
[quote]We have a pretty good bigger picture of evolution but we don't have fine scale picture of how evolution have worked. [/quote]
...yes but we do have the broader picture of how it works. So?
[quote]How our evolution from champs effect other species? Which should have logically?[/quote]
What makes you think it hasn't?
How would we know?
I mean as for a species being affected by humans there is the obvious example of dogs. Used to be wolves and now they're pets who have changed morphologically and behaviorally as a result of humans
SW-User
@UnparalleledMonster: No, there isn't, and in previous posts I debunked what you said. There is no evidence that any species has ever evolved from any other species. Zip, zap, zero - and repeating previously debunked theories simply shows how bankrupt your argument is.