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Is Trump presiding over the collapse of Western civilisation?

Whether Donald Trump is presiding over the collapse—or the defense—of Western civilization depends heavily on political perspective, with the administration and its critics offering sharply opposing views.

The Trump Administration’s View: The West is Under Threat

• The National Security Strategy: The Trump administration explicitly argues in its National Security Strategy that Western civilization—particularly Europe—faces a high risk of "civilisational erasure" within two decades.
• Blamed Factors: Officials like Secretary of State Marco Rubio and administration advisors attribute this decline to mass migration, low birthrates, censorship, a loss of national and religious identity, and the influence of supranational bodies like the European Union.
• Proposed Solution: The administration champions a "civilizationism" approach that seeks to restore traditional ethnoreligious and patriotic identities, curb migration, challenge multilateral globalism, and support aligned nationalist parties in Europe.

Critics' View: Trumpism Endangers the West

• Undermining Democratic Norms: Critics, including mainstream European politicians, US opposition lawmakers, and foreign policy analysts, argue that the primary threat to the West comes from within—driven by the erosion of democratic institutions, the rule of law, and checks and balances.
• Destabilizing Alliances: Opponents contend that Trump’s transactional approach to foreign policy, skepticism toward NATO, demands on allies, and open promotion of far-right political parties fracture post-WWII Western unity rather than protect it.
• Authoritarian Concerns: Critics in publications like The Washington Post argue that expanding executive power, challenging independent media, and politicizing legal and security systems undermine the foundational liberal-democratic values that define Western civilization.
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ArishMell · 70-79, M
I think the "Trumpism" is led from behind the throne, by oligarchs like Elon Musk, and by the arcane "Heritage Foundation" whose >900 page, turgid manifesto reveals very unpleasantly autocratic tendencies.

(The HF's manifesto lists as members, various very rich business people and companies, single-issue voluntary campaign-groups, amateur para-Christian "churches", and mysterious organisations hiding their purposes behind opaque names. The text often displays very intolerant social attitudes.)


I suspect the USA's administrative distrust of the EU stems from the USA having no control over it; and by EU standards on product safety, animal husbandry, etc. not imposed in the USA on producers wanting to export to European countries.

Many Americans seem unable to understand "Europe" anyway, even thinking Europe and the EU are the same, and that Europe is one nation. That ignorance may be understandable among ordinary citizens who have never been outside the US and likely taught little about the outside world, but would be inexcuseable if it appears among the nation's top politicians.


This is compounded by Donald Trump's worsening grasp on reality, naivety and unpredictability, petulant behaviour, and vague support for nations normally hostile to Europe and the USA. Irrespective of his basic politics, I think he genuinely is becoming less and less able at his work.

I wondered originally if Trump and the Oligarchs (not a 1960s pop band) were reflecting the Russian Federation, and Trump does admire presidents like Putin. Not now. Putin and his over-wealthy were mutual-supportive but the businessmen were abandoned once they'd served their purpose, and seem wisely keeping their heads down. With Trump, do the oligarchs have the upper hand?

Putin also has a powerful ally in rigid social control within Russia, in the shape of the Patriarch Kirril who has also called the invasion of Ukraine, "Holy". (Though he dare not oppose it.) Trump does not have that level of Church support, despite an American becoming Pope; though some of his most fervent 'Project 25' fans are very un-Christian "Christians".


It is bad for the USA, especially as that country has only two Parties; is bad for democracy, and is bad for the world.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@nudistsueaz No, I am not - but my country is affected by certain aspects of the phenomenom
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@TexChik I do not see or hear CNN.
TexChik · F
@ArishMell of course not
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
Yes. Yet the reasoning really is not listed.

The reasoning must apply to the whole world. It's not a partisan thing. Nor even country or regional thing.

The thinking that we are not interdependent on each other, just can no longer apply.

Yes, western civilization is collapsing.
And yes. Trump is currently presiding over the collapse. He is only making it happen even faster.

One of the worst fears the conservatives have is change. They truly do fear change. Change means control goes away from them.

And to give control, to anyone else that doesn't want to control, is their worst fear. That unfortunately is chaos to conservatives.
available4 · 70-79, M
being from Italy you seem to know everything about its political parties and why do you care and seem concerned?
nudistsueaz · 61-69, F
@available4 Exactly
Ximenajacoba · 31-35, F
@nudistsueaz What makes Americans think they know what is happening outside of the USA when they don’t engage in the world nor teach their children about it?
nudistsueaz · 61-69, F
@Ximenajacoba Who told you that? It isn't accurate
TexChik · F
He is not responsible for the Globalist corruption or their agenda in Europe. He is making sure American Tax dollars are not funding it and that America is safe and prosperous .
wildbill83 · 41-45, M
The fact that Europe has eroded to the point that they confuse patriotism with nationalism is very telling...
SunshineGirl · 41-45, F
He will be gone and forgotten soon. We will brush ourselves down and get on with business as normal.
Musicman · 61-69, M
Definitely not, but the Democrats would love to.
onewithshoes · 26-30, F
Just one page in the story.
peterlee · M
No, western civilisation does not depend on the USA. European culture goes much further back.

The USA has chosen to elect Trump twice and represents its values. We in Europe disassociate from that. It has nothing to offer.
peterlee · M
@ArishMell And what follows after him could be disturbing.

And there are other world players who we have no control of. The turbulent Middle East and the relentless juggernaut, China.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@peterlee I fear China has pulled a huge fast one over "The West".

When Mao Tse-tung was in charge, China was still developing but was clearly a potential enemy.

With hindsight, I see Chou En-lai as having led a crafty opening-up which both advanced his nation's economy and lulled the USA and Europe into a false sense of security. President Xi has continued this. The dragon with big teeth and claws was replaced by the cuddly-looking panda.

Pandas also have big teeth and claws though, and they can hide them.

China's system is designed for smooth continuity not disturbed by ideological competions every four or five years, so can plan for decades ahead. Moreover, her senior politicians include a high proportion of professional scientists and engineers, something many Western nations fail to encourage.

Somehow, "The West" failed to see all this; failed to see that the People's Republic of China is led by ruthless but patient, very clever people able to plan for the future.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@Ximenajacoba The US president cannot simply launch a nuclear war; not even a president like Donald Trump.

He does not have a big red button maked "LAUNCH" on his desk. He has the power to authorise it, but not sole power of order, still less physical launching ability.

Although he is titled Commander-in-Chief, I doubt the US Armed Services would obey an order to start a nuclear war without very real, last-ditch reasons- such as missiles coming the other way.

In any case, I think nuclear weapons would not be the default future weapon, but perhaps an auxiliary. Still ann utterly evil auxiliary weapon; but tactics like Internet attacks could cause far more widespread harm than even the appalling death-tolls and physical destruction by thermonuclear weapons.

In the end, a war that destroys your victim's assets is poor strategy, too. It destroys what you want to take.
Ximenajacoba · 31-35, F
@nudistsueaz Well Biden was essentially senile and no one was senior enough to be decisive, and because the men in America will never accept a woman as president no one impeached Biden on the 25th amendment
nudistsueaz · 61-69, F
@Ximenajacoba Oh you are wrong about a woman being elected. If a qualified woman would run for office, I think she would be elected easily. No on knows who was really in charge when O' Biden was in office. Everyone knew everyone was lieing to the country.
nudistsueaz · 61-69, F
@nudistsueaz That's how most American Citizens feel as well. Much better than the former admin.
swirlie · 31-35, F
Donald Trump couldn't find his assss using both hands, so don't concern yourself with how Trump views the world from his American perspective.

 
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