What do you think is going to happen to Trump?

@sree251 I have to disagree with you on how Trump conducted himself. No other president in our history everconducted himself so poorly. Trump never cared what he could or could not do as president, nor did he care if it was legal or ethical or not. He lacked the understanding of where the line was, and that has not changed. He thought he was elected King, and could do or say whatever he wanted with no consequences. He lacks the basic understanding of how American democracy works…the stuff we all learned in grade school and middle school.

@RockerDad You have your point of view but where is the proof of presidential criminal wrongdoing and dereliction of duty? The hounds after him are all nipping at his heels to provide a show for the gallery. Going after him for dubious financial records of a lawyer protecting him from a porn star? Clinton was having sexual daliances with staff on the Resolute Desk in the Oval Office! You see the difference? What's wrong with you people?

@sree251 Trump took an oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies both foreign and domestic.
He failed. Bigly!

@JSul3 Have you any idea what that oath entails? He would have to exterminate you and I and everybody in the USA. Everybody has his/her opinion about what Trump must do as President.

@sree251
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

@JSul3 This oath doesn't mean anything. Swearing is one thing, performance is another. Do we hold any of the people we vote into office accountable? Do we have any measurable job performance criteria? Never. Nobody who is serious about his oath would stand for election if we have job performance criteria. At the end of his term of office, we give every office holder an assessment against those criteria. If they don't meet those criteria, they get the death penalty. This the best way to shut down Congress and the White House.

@sree251 I don't accept any president that stands in Helsinki and sides with Putin. I don't accept any president allowing Russians to visit him in the WH, where no media is allowed, except the Russian media, and gives them intel. I don't accept any president that refuses to allow the peaceful transition of power from one administration to the next, and tells his VP to stop the EC votes and tells his followers to go to the Capital and 'fight like hell or we won't have our country anymore' then go to his 'safe place' and watch the assault against our democracy....the day 'blue lives didn't matter...J6. I don't accept any president that conspires to overturn a free election he lost.
I don't accept a president that is a pathological liar and psychotic narcissist and convicted of sexual assault.

@JSul3 Did you view Biden as the most popular candidate for President in US history before the election? Did you see practically no public turnout consistently at his election rallies in 2020? And yet he got more votes than even Barack Obama. How would you explain that?

@sree251 Biden was not my first or second choice for the democratic nominee. Trump managed to beat Hilary in 2016, because there was only a 25% turnout of eligible voters that year. Trump lost the popular vote that year as well. In 2020, there was a record turnout of voters, because like me, they weren’t so much voting for Biden, they were voting against Trump. I expect that in 2024, there will again be a very large turnout, which would against work against Trump.

@sree251 [quote] where is the proof of presidential criminal wrongdoing and dereliction of duty?[/quote] It's in the Jan 6 indictment. Trump used his office as part of a conspiracy to prevent the peaceful transfer of power.

It's also in the new Georgia indictment. Trump used his office in attempts to interfere with certifying the election in Georgia.

BTW, there are crimes, such as conspiracy and racketeering, where the criminal act can be purely verbal. The president, with all his powers, has a special responsibility to avoid verbal crimes. Verbal crimes seem to be among Trump's specialties.

@ElwoodBlues It is all a matter of perception with regard to charges and indictments against Trump. The American justice system is compromised because the entire American population is biased one way or the other. Trump can only get a fair trial in China presided over by the Chinese. They would probably laugh at the charges brought by the US Justice Department.

@sree251 [quote]It is all a matter of perception with regard to charges and indictments against Trump.[/quote] This is your way of telling us you haven't read the Jan 6 indictment. It's very clear where Trump and some of his people crossed the line into criminal acts.

[quote]3. The Defendant had a right, like every American, to speak publicly about the election and even to claim, falsely, that there had been outcome-determinative fraud during the election and that he had won. He was also entitled to formally challenge the results of the election through lawful and appropriate means, such as by seeking recounts or audits of the popular vote in states or filing lawsuits challenging ballots and procedures. Indeed, in many cases, the Defendant did pursue these methods of contesting the election results. His efforts to change the outcome in any state through recounts, audits, or legal challenges were uniformly unsuccessful.

4. Shortly after election day, the Defendant also pursued unlawful means of discounting legitimate votes and subverting the election results. In so doing, the Defendant perpetrated three criminal conspiracies: ...[/quote]

full text of Jan 6 indictment
[b]https://www.justice.gov/storage/US_v_Trump_23_cr_257.pdf[/b]

@ElwoodBlues I am not a legal expert but Judge Napolitano said two things:

1. Half the charges will be thrown out on appeal because they are federal charges beyond jurisdiction of state attorney generals.

2. Nobody was harmed. Therefore, all charges are for commission of thought crimes. These will also be thrown out by the Supreme Court if appeal at the federal level don't get quashed.

@sree251 Would he hold that same opinion, were the defendant a democrat?

@sree251 [quote]1. Half the charges will be thrown out on appeal because they are federal charges beyond jurisdiction of state attorney generals.[/quote] Trump currently faces to federal indictments and two more state indictments. This notion that state and federal laws can't overlap is false. For example there are both state and federal laws against crimes like conspiracy and fraud. A suspect can be charged or tried under either (but not both - double jeopardy).

[quote]2. Nobody was harmed. Therefore, all charges are for commission of thought crimes. [/quote] Wow, that Judge Napolitano sure got that one wrong! Every felony has an "attempted" version. Attempted murder is still a crime, even if the bullet or knife misses. Same with attempted grand larceny, etc. The law doesn't give you license to keep trying your crime until you get it right. That's a BIG mark against Judge Napolitano.

Read the Jan 6 charges against Trump. Seriously. Much of the meat is in the first 4 pages; then there are almost 40 pages of criminal acts listed. You don't have to read every criminal act, but read several to get a sense.

@JSul3 I don't see how it was an opinion. Judge Napolitano pointed to points of law. State jurisdiction is a technical matter. Georgia is a state. Federal laws are US laws pertaining to conduct of federal elections.

@sree251 Lots of Capitol Police were badly injured on January 6th. Three people died, including one insurrectionist. Had the insurrectionists found where the members of Congress and the Vice President were being hidden, I think many more people would have been injured or killed.

@ElwoodBlues Look, I told you that I am not a legal expert. What criminal charges are you referring to? Judge Napolitano was talking about those pertaining to the US Presidential election which is a federal election.

@sree251 I was talking about these charges: full text of Jan 6 indictment
[b]https://www.justice.gov/storage/US_v_Trump_23_cr_257.pdf[/b]

[quote] Judge Napolitano was talking about those pertaining to the US Presidential election which is a federal election.[/quote]
Actually, it's fifty different state elections to choose slates of electors.

[quote]Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, ...[/quote]
[b]US Constitution, Article 2 Section 1[/b]

See that, it's up to the state to select electors. Judge Napolitano is misleading you again here. It only becomes a federal matter after the electors cast their votes (the first Tuesday after the second Wednesday in December).

@RockerDad Are you an American who celebrates the right to public protest? In my opinion, this is a stupid idea even though I am an American. But you people celebrate that right even when police cars are torched, stores looted and people are hurt. January 6 was such a protest involving tens of thousands of people upset with the conduct and outcome of a US presidential election. When a huge number of people gather for whatever reason, crowd control is difficult to impossible to do. People are injured or even killed in sports events, mass rallies, and even religious processions. Jan 6 mishaps are no worse than any mass public assembly that goes awry. To view Jan 6 as an insurrection to vent hatred and exact punishment for those whose political views you disagree with speaks badly of you as an American.

@ElwoodBlues You are muddying the waters. I won't accept your invitation to wallow in that mud with you. The US presidential election is pretty complicated to provide checks and balances in a nation of crooks. The lack of a straightforward election that can be done by popular vote within 24 hours has given rise to a process that is susceptible to manipulation by conductors of the election. The entire nation know this is so; and yet, every four years we go through the same crooked process.

Trump ought to know the score. He thought that his popular vote would drown the crooks trying to pull the levers against him. As it turned out, even the media was involved in doing him in and called the election in case the lever pulling couldn't stop Trump from winning.

@sree251 Now we come down to it. You're muddying the waters with your GiAnTt CoNsPiRaCy ThEoRy and your bandwagon fallacy.

Trump brought 61 court cases . Trump's attorneys put their best "fraud evidence" forward in about 60 cases and NONE of it stood up in court. In a logical factual world, that should be the end of the story.

Trump also collected $250,000,000 in "stop the steal" donations before Biden took office. Imagine what a quarter billion dollars could do towards unearthing election fraud over the next two years. Yet Trump didn't unearth ANYTHING. Why not? In a logical factual world, that should be the end of beating this "stolen election" dead horse. Does a GiAnTt CoNsPiRaCy ThEoRy make people immune to facts??

@ElwoodBlues A quarter of a billion dollars only? It's much more than that. Trump's political support from Americans is a huge concern to those trying to stop him, and donations keep flowing in from every American who has the same spirit that fought an oppressive government and overthrew it in 1776. Insurrectionists were what the British called those who fought them for freedom.