After thinking about it seriously…

@TheGreatLeveler No.
There will never be a situation where a man’s body is affected by abortion.

If the man is the sex worker, then he gets to decide if he wants to do that work.

@bijouxbroussard Not his body, but his finances. Hence the term paper (financial) abortion. If a woman has the option to opt out of a pregnancy she didn't want, a man should have the option to opt out of the financial burdens of the child he didn't want.

@TheGreatLeveler That would definitely be incentive for more abortions. If the woman knew she couldn’t afford a child she’d also know she would not be getting any help.

@bijouxbroussard At least she could make an informed decision on whether she wants to continue the pregnancy or abort it at that point.

If the legalization of abortion is truly about the pro-choice aspect, then that should include a choice for men in some way, shape, or form. A paper abortion ability is the most appropriate version of that.

@TheGreatLeveler In the U.S. there are now states where a girl or woman has no choice, even when it wasn’t her choice to have sex in the first place. A rape or incest victim is capable of becoming pregnant. Biologically it will never be an equal situation. So there’s no real way to make things equitable.

@bijouxbroussard

Yes, but that's irrelevant in this discussion, since we're both in favor of the legalization of abortion. In countries or states where it's illegal, my paper abortion proposal would obviously be irrelevant. You can't have paper abortion rights for men without having abortion rights for women.


That's why women get the choice to fully abort, while men would only get the ability to financially abort. Just because there are physiological differences between both sexes, it doesn't mean it's not possible to provide men with any reproduction rights as a consequence.

In my scenario, a man's choice would still be lesser compared to a woman's. He could still become a father against his wishes, but at least he wouldn't be financially responsible for the child he didn't choose to have.

In my opinion, any person who would support the legalization of the supply end of prostitution, but who would want to criminalize the demand side... and who would want pro-choice legislation for women, but who wouldn't want any reproduction rights (financial or otherwise) for men, isn't really a progressive on those topics. They're just in it to only strengthen the woman's position on both issues.

@TheGreatLeveler Perhaps. But then, because it isn’t equal, women pay a higher price. Women risk their actual lives even when they choose to have a child. So the fact that they’re forced to take that risk in some states by people who won’t pay a penny towards prenatal care or the care of the child is just one of the issues that make the so-called "pro-life" agenda anti-woman. The U.S. has a surprisingly high maternal mortality rate. Men walk away from pregnancies all the time, still, and never look back. How vigorously they’re pursued depends on the law; not all states are vigilant about it. The woman has to deal with it, either way.

In terms of prostitution, where men have no problem paying for the use of a woman’s body, there’s still a stigma for women with a past as sex workers. Men known to have used such services, are generally not seen as being "damaged goods" . Legal or not, anyone with daughters should consider: the day she tells you she plans to become a sex worker and you view that news with the same pride as if she’d announced she was becoming a nurse, then it will be seen as a "legitimate" vocation.

@TheGreatLeveler Let's be realistic, if men don't want the "financial responsibility" all they need to do is keep it in their pants or wear a condom... 😵‍💫

@spjennifer
Let's be realistic, if women don't want the responsibilities of being a mother, all they need to do is keep their panties on, or use protection.

See how easy it is to reverse genders? You can't make your statement without being anti-abortion. And if you're against abortion, a financial/paper abortion option for men is an irrelevant topic anyway.

@TheGreatLeveler Right, and that applies to the victims of incest or rape how? When the sex is non-consensual and the woman is forced to birth the thing by the State, the State should then legalize rape and incest, that makes about as much sense as your logic??? A woman can't ( normally) get pregnant without penetration but men can penetrate and not get pregnant so who should bear the responsibility for protection???

@spjennifer If a woman rapes a man, and she gets pregnant, the man can still be forced by court to pay child support. It's not like that hasn't happened before, involving underaged boys and female high school teachers for example. State legalized rape, as you called it, by enforcing financial punishment onto the male victims.

@TheGreatLeveler Oh get serious, how often do women "rape men", maybe like 5% vs 95% of rapists being men raping women and the men still don't get pregnant either way... Yes, in rare circumstances female teachers have sex with male students, significantly less often than male teachers raping female students though.

@spjennifer
Only like <1% of unwanted pregnancies are a result of rape. So if low male rape statistics aren't an argument in favor of paper abortion rights for men, then I don't see how the low number of female rapes would be an argument in favor of abortion rights for women.

Anyway, this kind of reasoning leads to nothing. You're either in favor of the legalization of abortion, or you're against it. I can understand both perspectives. Every argument in favor, and against, has been expressed countless of times before. However, if you're pro-choice, but that doesn't include any sort of choice for the man (such as the ability to have a paper/financial abortion for example) then you're not really pro-choice. In that case you're just advocating for double standards.



Which is, as the above citations pointed out, clearly what you did on this thread.

@TheGreatLeveler Your cognitive dissonance about this issue is just unreal, there is no "double standard" when it comes to pregnancy. Men can't get pregnant, and most women don't get pregnant without the presence of penis, it's that simple. If men want to have sex with women, then they must accept the responsibility that comes with it, either wear protection or accept the responsibilities of becoming a Father. Seeing as men like you refuse to accept that responsibility, then the right to abortions must be absolute and legal. The days when women were chattel and the property of their husbands or Fathers are long gone, whether you like it or not...

@TheGreatLeveler


If even 1 woman who has been raped or is the victim of incest is refused the right to abort the thing, then we as a society have failed miserably, do you not understand this??? Their bodies don't belong to the State nor to the male who impregnated them.

Moreover, according to RAINN and other groups that poll, two out of three rapes of women and girls go unreported, which brings any statistic about resulting pregnancies into question.