Socialist Tier list

@BritishFailedAesthetic That's lame. You should learn.

@BohemianBoo If there's a language for me to learn, it's a useful one like Spanish, Arabic or Chinese.

@BritishFailedAesthetic But German is more edgy. You can impress all the other anti-woke trolls.

@Emosaur Yeah, he almost singlehandedly made single payer healthcare a partisan issue over here, before then it was a lunatic commie thing. It's kinda silly to judge politicians outside of the social context in which they operate.

@BlueVeins If I were american I'd probably put him up higher but overall he is just a social democrat.
I do like Bernie and he probably is the best the US has to offer currently.

@BobbyMoeven I agree

@Gloomy GIVE US EMMA GOLDMAN

@Gloomy It does kind of illustrate how even among socialists we can't agree on who had the right idea though. lol

I think part of the problem is many of these quizzes and memes are put together by western and especially Americans where the guys are mostly the only socialists talked about.

And the few women talked about tend to be anarchists like Emma Goldman.

If you had a list done up by the so called global south you would probably get a very different list.

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow True and these shouldn't be taken too seriously anyway.

It's also difficult to judge and rank some leftists cause for example I agree with anarchists on many issues but I think a stateless society is either only a nice dream or very very far in the future.
I'd be interested in your ranking.

@Gloomy I agree. I am with Dr. Michael Perenti on that one. A society with no hierarchies sounds cool and might work great in specific sectors but would be chaos on a macro level.

@LeopoldBloom I expect better from you. There has been one homophobic quote in the Motorcycle Diaries and he even expressed sympathies for the man due to the way people treated him. After that nothing, no sources that he even thought about the topic or was a "raging" homophobe and the camps were established when he went away to Bolivia.
Castro apologized for the way he treated gay people which I think was a big step given western leaders rarely or only under pressure do that.
Also the time was horrible for queer people anyway.

@Gloomy Well said and the outrage about things like homophobia seems to be extremely selective. These are often the same people who hold up Eric Blair aka George Orwell who according to his own writing ratted people out to MI5 as national security risks for being gay in particular and leftists. If you read his accounts of his own life it seems his only issue with colonialism is that it forced him to deal directly with non whites. And people who served with him in Spain describe his politics as more in line with Franco.

@Gloomy Fair enough, most of that criticism comes from right-wingers who don't exactly have a great record in how they treat LGBT. My main beef with Cuba is the political repression, not that the Batista government was any better.

I consider people like Murray Bookchin and Abdullah Ocalan to be much better examples of socialism than Castro or Guevara, although it's much easier when you're a theorist and don't have to deal with the frustrations and setbacks of the real world. That being said, Rojava and Jineology might not have been possible in 1960.

"Presentism" came up in a recent discussion of James Webb, the NASA director they named the telescope after. He's been criticized for anti-LGBT policies that occurred under his direction of the agency. Some people pointed out that there's no record of Webb being homophobic himself, and in the environment back then, he should get credit for not actively persecuting LGBT employees. It's unrealistic to expect people back then to take a strong stand when that would have gotten them fired. Just letting people be amounted to taking a stand.

@basilfawlty89 Emma Goldman is under based

@Emosaur you should read into Bookchin he is amazing

@Emosaur I'd recommend Kropotkin as well. And Rudolf Rocker.

@Gloomy [quote] fighting fascism [/quote]

Ulterior motive- thankfully Hitler made the idiotic move of invading Russia- they were allies before

[quote] defending the Soviet Union [/quote]

You knew this was coming but not a good thing 🤭

@BritishFailedAesthetic The whole world should be Socialist so one way or another the Nazis would have fallen and one way or another capitalism will fall one day
They were never allies just not straight up enemies at one point

@Gloomy [quote] The whole world should be Socialist [/quote]

Everyone can be impoverished together! 🤭

Look it's had it's benefits though so I'll do a shopping list:

To buy:

Seperation of religion and state, audits to ensure women are given the same opportunities and pay as men, workers rights, trade unions, a generous minimum wage and housing for all.

To avoid:

Restricting religious liberties (obviously individuals who commit and encourage terrorism in the name of religion should be charged and religions like fundamentalist LDS who advocate child marriage should be restricted), public ownership of companies (I'll take an exception to utility companies and transport companies though) and restricting your freedom of speech.

@BlueOwl