Libs. . Do you really think we are going to allow you to continue indoctrinating our children with LBGT propaganda?

@Torsten It's not the "libs" that are getting pissed off in schoolboards, protesting Disney, banning books, ... etc.
But I guess neglecting this in favor of pointing the finger at the other makes things easier for you. 👬

@Kwek00 where did I mention "libs" or point the finger at anyone?
I am against teachers trying to teach my kid utter nonsense though. Not saying sex is nonsense of course but it is when children are very young. They dont need to be taught that type of stuff till they at least reach a certain age.
I have no real faith in a lot of so called teachers and have had some experience with a teacher trying to indoctrinate their views on my son in the past.
I dont care what others teach their children but when it comes to mine, i get a say in it

@Torsten Have you read the original post?
What is the utter nonsense part? What do you think these kids are going to get, sex, sexual orientation, ... it's a part of life.
What was the teacher doing Torsten, what indoctrination was taking place?

@Kwek00 I did read it now tell me where i said "libs" or pointed the finger at anyone like you accused.
Its utter nonsense to be teaching kids about sex when they are of such a young age. Plus with all these videos online now of students filming their teachers going on rants about their own sexuality and so on, is nonsense. teachers need to keep their personal feelings and opinions out of teaching children and stick to the student curriculum.

The teacher that tried indoctrinating my son was about religion and trying to tell him that his religious faith is false and that hers is correct

@Torsten So you are aware that the original post adresses the "libs" that are "teaching children about sex"... and you go "people seem to get so angry when you tell em they cant teach your kids about sex", and you get annoyed because I stayed on toppic and you suddenly pretend innocense because you didn't literally use the word "libs" but "people".

Why is it utter nonsense? What are we trying to do Torsten... we are trying to avoid teen pregnancies, make sure that children that are confronted by a gay couple knows what is up and that children know their body. It also helps children to recognise when they are being touched by older people, and that this unapproriate, so that they don't have to grow up with a trauma and understand much later what actually happened. Again... a lot of this is about education, trying to create understanding and prevention.

That there are nutty people out there, won't be denied. However, you don't make policy based on a few nutcases that can't be identified as being the norm. If you are going to look at the exceptions, and you are going to base your policies around that, things will get really weird because there will always be people that are extreme. Extremes just aren't significant enough to base your policies on.

"Trying to tell him" ... so there was a discussion. That's good, discussions are okay, that's what school is for. Broadens the horizons, gives new perspectives, ... etc. I however don't think Religion should be part of the education, except as a form of understanding what all kinds of religions are about. So that children don't grow up ignorant about the believe systems that are out there.

@Kwek00 No i am annoyed at the accusation. Dont try twisting my words. Take them for what they are. There is no hidden message in it. I say what i am thinking and thats it. I commented on this thread not on a idiotic right vs left crap but more so on people outraged over what kids are learning in schools

learning sex is not bad depending on the age of course and seems people want them taught it earlier and earlier now and that to be in nonsense

when it comes to religion. Telling a child his faith is incorrect and not real is not a good thing and I went up their the next day and sorted that shit out.

Are you a parent?

@Torsten Not a parent, not religious.

Yes, I said you were annoyed, I got it.

The amount of "sex ed" or even the toppics at a young age are also adapted to that age group. Of course, this entire discussion also obfusgates the fact that it's not as much about "sex ed" but the fact that children apperently shouldn't come in contact with "non-heterosexual behavior". That's the real issue of the debate, and it gets framed by a group of people as being "sex-ed" for 5 year olds. Which blows the concept that is actually being discussed, out of proportion and makes a lot of people angry, because angry people are the easiest to manipulate. That's also why this bill is being pushed through in Florida and the conservative movement is waging a war on Disney. If you want angry people, maybe that's where you need to look.

I do think that discussions about religion should be an absolute must, if everything is so grounded in reality, there should be no problem having a bit of back and forth. But again, teachers shouldn't be pushing religions... any religion for that matter. They should be moderators and pointing out the weak spots in arguments. So that children can learn to discuss this stuff instead of becoming snowflakes that get angry everytime a part of their identity is being discussed.

@Kwek00 It certainly shows. maybe not best to try and tell parents what their children should or should not be learning in that case

@Torsten Do I really look like a person that gives some kind of extraordinairy authority to a bunch of grown ups that made semen connect to an egg? Parents that believe that they are good parents because they created new life and feel that this is the authority needed to talking about parenting are kinda ridiculous to me. Espescially when I look around and see how easy it is to make someone pregnant as long as both actors are fertile. It's not a a big intellectual excercise

@Kwek00 I dont just believe I am a good parent. I know it and you can have whatever opinion you like on what children are taught, sorry but its still kind of worthless to me now and when it comes to my son, His mother and me get all the say in what he learns till he reaches a certain age we find acceptable. Dont like that, i dont give a shit haha

@Torsten Well, I don't really give a shit either, as I kinda made clear. We are on equal footing there.

@Kwek00 but we are not on equal footing here as far as this subject is concerned

@Torsten I'm almost 40 years old, I never raised a kid, but I've seen a lot of parents. I care a lot more about the children, I think giving your children the means to understand their reality that they are growing up in is a good thing. And parents that like to keep taboos that eventually can turn into their childrens' personal frustrations because they are ill equiped to understand their own feelings or their body. Or taboos that create a rebelious nature that can lead to teen pregnancies. Or taboos that make kids not understand that mature people cross a line and that children should be able to say no instead of being ignorant of what is happening, which can be haunting experiences for their rest of their lifes. I think that's a good thing, I see no reason why it shouldn't be. And parents that want to shelter their kids because of some small minded vieuw on sexuality an gender, well... as I said, don't care about that what so ever. Because education isn't about the parents, it's about the kids.

@Kwek00 but you are not a parent and if you were you would realize that your thoughts and opinions change when that happens.
You do not get to tell parents what is best for their children. Sorry but you just dont, no matter how much you feel you care about kids. That is not your place to do so

@Torsten That's okay Torsten... we are off two diffrent schools of thought annyway. I like to arm people with knowledge so that they can dodge certain issues that can happen later in life. And you like to get angry after the facts. I think my way is better, because I'm about prevention. And you think your way is better, because being angry is more important then prevention. It's not the first time we walked this road.

@Kwek00 I am not angry in the slightest. We are on two different schools of thought and while I respect your opinion,I dont agree with it what so ever

@Torsten I said you like to be angry AFTER the facts Torsten. AFTER the facts. You know, those things I like to prevent by giving people the nescessary knowledge. Something you haven't been able to interact with so far, you just pulled the "I'm a parents card", that's kinda where we are right now. It's not important that the children in your childs class get the nescessary tools to understand their reality and dodge a misstep that they might take because of some form of parental overprotection where so far... we didn't get any reasons for. I gave you reasons why I think it's good to give kids specific knowledge and that this debate isn't soley about that, but a kneejerk reaction from a conservative movement that just can't deal with reality. But I guess I can't talk about that, because I'm not a parent, and thus that entire prevention idea is just flushed down the drain because you had to go and sit on your high horse because you had a fun time in bed a couple of years ago.

@Kwek00 You probably shouldn't ask what you 'look like' unless you really want to be told.

@Kwek00 your knowledge is not necessary when it comes to my childs education. he is doing fantastic just the way it is now. And yeah I will play the parent card when the topic is about what children should be taught about in schools

@Torsten A school doesn't just revolve around your child. It's about the entire group of children. That means also the children that don't have parents like yourself.

@Kwek00 nope but my child revolves around me and I get a say in what he is being taught. Not you

@Torsten Well, I'll just throw it out there that I'm happy our educational system isn't controlled by the parents, because I expect a lot more from it then the average household can provide when it comes to knowledge and understanding. If we let it up to the devouted segment of my society, our children wouldn't be able to grow smarter then the previous generation, not to mention solve any of the problems that come from these traditional vieuws on education. It would just be a repdocution of the same old mistakes without ever being able to learn anything from it for the sake of a bunch of parents that believe they are better because they were able to have children.

@Kwek00 and what problems come from the "traditional views" on education? And who determines its problematic?
Parents for the most part actually have their children's best issues at heart I do not believe a lot of so called educators do anymore. But i will wait to here what has been so problematic from a system that has been pretty successful for the most part except for recent that is

@Kwek00 Do your posts reflect the quality of your country's education system? How sad.

@Torsten Teen pregnancies are still a thing, children having difficulties with their feelings because being gay or being transsexual is still taboo and kids today still grow up and figure out years later that they have been sexually abused because they were just not equiped to recognise it when they were younger.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Good intentions are not the same as good parenting or handling issues. And don't kid yourself, the educational system has feedback loops too. It changes according to feedback because it tries to better itself. It's only when a segment of the poppulation suddenly gets annoyed because taboos that are rooted into the societal fabric hit a nerve, that suddenly groups appear that need to conserve what is under debate for change. Taboos however ussually don't really do much good for society, even things that are morally objectable are good to be understood and studied so that you can prevent occurences from happening so people dn't need to get disgusted and angry AFTER the facts.