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pianoplayingsteve · 31-35, M
Really? Like every single Republican, as if they are all some sort of borg that think exactly the same thing, at the same time?
I think the issue is how broken America is. The talking heads and politicians are incredibly happy to lie, to divide the population, to emotionally manipulate and so on for short term gain, no matter the damage it does to individuals and communities.
Guns have been around for a long time now, and it's only VERY recently that these shootings are happening so frequently. I feel this is a more of a fracturing of society issue. We have similar social issues here in the UK, guns are banned, so instead we have an epidemic of stabbings, acid attacks, home made bombs, driving vehicles into people and buildings. But I dont want to ban vehicles or chemicals. I'd rather society becomes high trust again and more self sufficient. But then if they do, there won't be need for bigger government, more taxes, more invasion of privacies ad rights so instead the news blasts every day: "conflict! racism! ism! phobe! terrorism!" as the population divides more and more.
I'm sure you'll just disagree with all that without a second thought though. The world is a mess and the shootings are a symptom of that. Over here in the UK police have been seizing not just knives, but cutlery, and people are being arrested for opinions, we have a load of poverty, homelessness, untreated illness despite all the things some of your left wing politicians pretend you need to make everything sunshine and rainbows.
I think the issue is how broken America is. The talking heads and politicians are incredibly happy to lie, to divide the population, to emotionally manipulate and so on for short term gain, no matter the damage it does to individuals and communities.
Guns have been around for a long time now, and it's only VERY recently that these shootings are happening so frequently. I feel this is a more of a fracturing of society issue. We have similar social issues here in the UK, guns are banned, so instead we have an epidemic of stabbings, acid attacks, home made bombs, driving vehicles into people and buildings. But I dont want to ban vehicles or chemicals. I'd rather society becomes high trust again and more self sufficient. But then if they do, there won't be need for bigger government, more taxes, more invasion of privacies ad rights so instead the news blasts every day: "conflict! racism! ism! phobe! terrorism!" as the population divides more and more.
I'm sure you'll just disagree with all that without a second thought though. The world is a mess and the shootings are a symptom of that. Over here in the UK police have been seizing not just knives, but cutlery, and people are being arrested for opinions, we have a load of poverty, homelessness, untreated illness despite all the things some of your left wing politicians pretend you need to make everything sunshine and rainbows.
windinhishair · 61-69, M
@pianoplayingsteve There is a fundamental difference though. Knives and chemicals and vehicles are not specifically designed to kill as many people as possible as quickly as possible.
The Republican Party has come out against gun controls many times. So yes, it is appropriate to lump Republicans into a category they created.
I agree with you that addressing the root causes such as poverty is the best way to address the issue in the long run. But reducing the availability of assault weapons will help as well.
The Republican Party has come out against gun controls many times. So yes, it is appropriate to lump Republicans into a category they created.
I agree with you that addressing the root causes such as poverty is the best way to address the issue in the long run. But reducing the availability of assault weapons will help as well.
LordShadowfire · 46-50, M
@pianoplayingsteve
Really? Like every single Republican, as if they are all some sort of borg that think exactly the same thing, at the same time?
That's not what OP said, and is therefore not really relevant to the rest of what you're saying. It's more like you're being offended as a way of distracting.I think the issue is how broken America is. The talking heads and politicians are incredibly happy to lie, to divide the population, to emotionally manipulate and so on for short term gain, no matter the damage it does to individuals and communities.
Funny thing about that. For at least the last four years now, much of that divisiveness has come from politicians ostensibly on the right. They recognize that most of us don't know what to do with racists, so we sort of ignore them. That's where the divide comes from.Guns have been around for a long time now, and it's only VERY recently that these shootings are happening so frequently. I feel this is a more of a fracturing of society issue.
I don't dismiss that. However, I would also add that in addition to society being divided against itself, we as a society ignore the mentally ill until they become a problem, and then we blame them....the news blasts every day: "conflict! racism! ism! phobe! terrorism!" as the population divides more and more.
Like that's something new? The news media have been sensationalist for centuries, and people didn't go on mass shooting sprees.despite all the things some of your left wing politicians pretend you need to make everything sunshine and rainbows.
I see. So we should just stop trying to make society a pleasant place to live, and encourage the racism, sexism, religious bigotry, and mental illness.
JP1119 · 36-40, M
@pianoplayingsteve Can you show me a Republican politician, commentator, heck even just a Republican voter who wants any new gun laws?
Maybe mass shootings have been happening more frequently recently because our technology has developed better and because Congress let the assault weapons ban expire in I think 2004 without any kind of replacement? In the UK guns are banned so criminals attack with knives. Tell me, how many usually get killed in these mass stabbings? Vehicles and chemicals have other uses besides killing people, that’s why they’re not banned. Not only do guns have no other purpose than to kill people, they are in fact specifically designed to kill people as efficiently as possible. Who got arrested for having an opinion? I’m sure some British live in poverty, but not nearly as many even as a percentage of the general population as Americans.
Maybe mass shootings have been happening more frequently recently because our technology has developed better and because Congress let the assault weapons ban expire in I think 2004 without any kind of replacement? In the UK guns are banned so criminals attack with knives. Tell me, how many usually get killed in these mass stabbings? Vehicles and chemicals have other uses besides killing people, that’s why they’re not banned. Not only do guns have no other purpose than to kill people, they are in fact specifically designed to kill people as efficiently as possible. Who got arrested for having an opinion? I’m sure some British live in poverty, but not nearly as many even as a percentage of the general population as Americans.
pianoplayingsteve · 31-35, M
@windinhishair A few years ago, here in the UK, several Islamic terrorists ran down london bridge and killed quite a few people with knives. They were only stopped when an officer with a gun shot them. If innocent people were allowed to be armed, the second a knife came out, their gun would have been pulled out, no need for casualties. In France there was a similar attack in a church in which several people were decapitated with a knife. Again, armed church, end of story. The media never likes to make much of a fuss about all this because it goes against a lot of the narratives from the left, but over here in Europe the attacks are pretty much daily, deadly and without guns. If we were allowed to be armed and were more cohesive, we wouldn't have issues.
I'm not a republican, neither a democrat. But I am in favour of being allowed to be armed. I do not think any person has the authority to tell another human that they are not allowed to defend themselves, regardless of if they wear a suit or give themselves a title.
I'm glad we agree on the long term solution, but it's the only thing that works. Short term solutions are just quick fixes and then another short term thing is needed, and another, and another, and politicians will take advantage. I don't think it is actually poverty that causes this, as you are not exactly in dire straits if you have enough money spare for an assault rifle and ammo. And I know plenty of people not that well off who are completely sane when in the right environment.
I think it's more the culture. There are countless millions of people who know they are never going to get everything out of the only life they have, whilst a very small number of people get everything. And then these same well off people say "you are privileged because of your gender, or your skin colour. You might be homeless, but you're white. You might be suffering from a crippling illness, but you are a male" it almost seems like there is an intentional attempt to rile people up. And at the same time there is this push to make it impossible for anyone to come to an agreement on anything. The most objective things are somehow now some political issue. "men can actually get pregnant", "being fat is actually healthy", and at the same time the state splits people into identity groups, convinces them that one group is out to get the other and then if anyone says the wrong thing you are charged with a hatecrime. So millions of people get no help, they are being told they are actually privileged and evil because of immutable characteristics, we are being told to group people based on those immutable characteristics. It's getting ridiculous. I feel like my time at school was more adult and coherent when it came to discussing issues. As an adult, especially in politics its as if we've taken all the ways of thinking that the scientific method highlighted as being a fallacy, and decided that all those fallacies are actually the right way of doing things.
It is a major, major cultural issue which actually stems from the individual, and you took a knock at the republicans, so I'm going to make a knock at the democrats, many on their side seem to want to group people into identity groups at the expense of their individual freedoms and merits, and it is the level of the individual that matters. We suffer, we succeed, we love at the individual level. And it is at the individual level where we need to rebuild our communities. Not all this crap about "if we can just chastise this group of people enough, or if we can just ban these weapons!". No. I think there is an intentional dark path being forged with all that, at the expense of the individual. If you haven't stabbed someone you get to keep your knife, if you haven't run someone over you get to keep your car, if you haven't shot someone you get to keep your gun. I can assure you, guns are banned here in the UK, but we still have absolutely horrible people that find other more gruesome ways to harm people. Fix that, and you'll fix almost every issue and you can keep your guns like you have for hundreds of years. This massive wave of shootings happened very recently and it goes hand in hand with all the division from the media and identitarian (which at the moment is all over the democratic party divisive crap.
If you still don't believe me, I've really studied this, both looking at the history of the US, similar movements in Europe and Asia, and also on the individual psychological level, so I'm happy to say more.
I'm not a republican, neither a democrat. But I am in favour of being allowed to be armed. I do not think any person has the authority to tell another human that they are not allowed to defend themselves, regardless of if they wear a suit or give themselves a title.
I'm glad we agree on the long term solution, but it's the only thing that works. Short term solutions are just quick fixes and then another short term thing is needed, and another, and another, and politicians will take advantage. I don't think it is actually poverty that causes this, as you are not exactly in dire straits if you have enough money spare for an assault rifle and ammo. And I know plenty of people not that well off who are completely sane when in the right environment.
I think it's more the culture. There are countless millions of people who know they are never going to get everything out of the only life they have, whilst a very small number of people get everything. And then these same well off people say "you are privileged because of your gender, or your skin colour. You might be homeless, but you're white. You might be suffering from a crippling illness, but you are a male" it almost seems like there is an intentional attempt to rile people up. And at the same time there is this push to make it impossible for anyone to come to an agreement on anything. The most objective things are somehow now some political issue. "men can actually get pregnant", "being fat is actually healthy", and at the same time the state splits people into identity groups, convinces them that one group is out to get the other and then if anyone says the wrong thing you are charged with a hatecrime. So millions of people get no help, they are being told they are actually privileged and evil because of immutable characteristics, we are being told to group people based on those immutable characteristics. It's getting ridiculous. I feel like my time at school was more adult and coherent when it came to discussing issues. As an adult, especially in politics its as if we've taken all the ways of thinking that the scientific method highlighted as being a fallacy, and decided that all those fallacies are actually the right way of doing things.
It is a major, major cultural issue which actually stems from the individual, and you took a knock at the republicans, so I'm going to make a knock at the democrats, many on their side seem to want to group people into identity groups at the expense of their individual freedoms and merits, and it is the level of the individual that matters. We suffer, we succeed, we love at the individual level. And it is at the individual level where we need to rebuild our communities. Not all this crap about "if we can just chastise this group of people enough, or if we can just ban these weapons!". No. I think there is an intentional dark path being forged with all that, at the expense of the individual. If you haven't stabbed someone you get to keep your knife, if you haven't run someone over you get to keep your car, if you haven't shot someone you get to keep your gun. I can assure you, guns are banned here in the UK, but we still have absolutely horrible people that find other more gruesome ways to harm people. Fix that, and you'll fix almost every issue and you can keep your guns like you have for hundreds of years. This massive wave of shootings happened very recently and it goes hand in hand with all the division from the media and identitarian (which at the moment is all over the democratic party divisive crap.
If you still don't believe me, I've really studied this, both looking at the history of the US, similar movements in Europe and Asia, and also on the individual psychological level, so I'm happy to say more.
pianoplayingsteve · 31-35, M
@LordShadowfire He didn't say "some republicans", he said "republicans". So either he means "all republicans", or when someone on the far right says "muslims" they must not mean "all muslims". Which one is it?
windinhishair · 61-69, M
@pianoplayingsteve The more people who are armed, the more gun deaths there will be. You don't want the UK to become like the US where mass murders with guns are commonplace. You would fit in well over here with your belief that good guys with guns stop bad guys with guns, without considering the increase in gun deaths the more guns are out there. I'd much rather have a bad guy intent on doing harm to be armed with a knife than with semiautomatic weapons that can kill dozens in a few seconds.
How many people do you think would have been killed in Las Vegas if the shooter who killed 61 and wounded over 500 was armed with a knife? Or two knives? Or 20 knives? Answer: there would have been more than 500 fewer dead and wounded.
How many people do you think would have been killed in Las Vegas if the shooter who killed 61 and wounded over 500 was armed with a knife? Or two knives? Or 20 knives? Answer: there would have been more than 500 fewer dead and wounded.
pianoplayingsteve · 31-35, M
@windinhishair Please see the longer answer I provided which addresses that. This is discussing whether or not you referred to all republicans.
windinhishair · 61-69, M
@pianoplayingsteve As long as Republicans continue to oppose any gun controls as a party, I will continue to refer to their groupthink as a unit. You referred to democrats in the same way in one of your lengthy responses.
pianoplayingsteve · 31-35, M
@windinhishair Yes I know, and when I did I pointed out that I was doing so in response to you initially doing it to republicans. And I still made sure to use the terms "many" or "some of", rather than how you just said "republicans", because as I said, people are not a borg, this lumping all of one side into one camp has a revived religious nutcase feel to it, no matter how secular we become, we are still as tribal, emotional and irrational as always. So, can you please respond to what I said directly to you, as opposed to what I've said to this guy that I don't really care about. I would hate to have wasted all that time typing that under the pressumption you'd give it a good response. This site is notorious for people who upon receiving a thought out response they disagree with, instead pick out a less thought out short response I've made to someone else and just focus on that and hope the actual argument they ignored fizzes out. Please don't be like that.
windinhishair · 61-69, M
@pianoplayingsteve I believe I've responded to your post already. My apologies if you believe I have not. I'm not going to change responding to beliefs as being held by Republicans, when it is part of the Republican platform and is reiterated continually by Republican leaders. People know what is meant when Republicans and Democrats are referred to in that way.
The tribal nature of interactions between the parties has definitely increased, as the overlap in beliefs between the two major parties has been eliminated. We are at a point now where the most liberal Republican is more conservative than the most conservative Democrat. We are better off as a nation when we have liberal Republicans and conservative Democrats.
The tribal nature of interactions between the parties has definitely increased, as the overlap in beliefs between the two major parties has been eliminated. We are at a point now where the most liberal Republican is more conservative than the most conservative Democrat. We are better off as a nation when we have liberal Republicans and conservative Democrats.
LordShadowfire · 46-50, M
@pianoplayingsteve It's the same as when the news stations say it. You don't think they literally mean every single Republican in the country, do you?
pianoplayingsteve · 31-35, M
@LordShadowfire I already asked you a question. So I'll restate it, if stating "republicans do x" does not mean referring to all republicans, then if someone on the far right says "muslims do x", do they not mean all muslims?
pianoplayingsteve · 31-35, M
@windinhishair This is the post I've made which you have not responded to:
A few years ago, here in the UK, several Islamic terrorists ran down london bridge and killed quite a few people with knives. They were only stopped when an officer with a gun shot them. If innocent people were allowed to be armed, the second a knife came out, their gun would have been pulled out, no need for casualties. In France there was a similar attack in a church in which several people were decapitated with a knife. Again, armed church, end of story. The media never likes to make much of a fuss about all this because it goes against a lot of the narratives from the left, but over here in Europe the attacks are pretty much daily, deadly and without guns. If we were allowed to be armed and were more cohesive, we wouldn't have issues.
I'm not a republican, neither a democrat. But I am in favour of being allowed to be armed. I do not think any person has the authority to tell another human that they are not allowed to defend themselves, regardless of if they wear a suit or give themselves a title.
I'm glad we agree on the long term solution, but it's the only thing that works. Short term solutions are just quick fixes and then another short term thing is needed, and another, and another, and politicians will take advantage. I don't think it is actually poverty that causes this, as you are not exactly in dire straits if you have enough money spare for an assault rifle and ammo. And I know plenty of people not that well off who are completely sane when in the right environment.
I think it's more the culture. There are countless millions of people who know they are never going to get everything out of the only life they have, whilst a very small number of people get everything. And then these same well off people say "you are privileged because of your gender, or your skin colour. You might be homeless, but you're white. You might be suffering from a crippling illness, but you are a male" it almost seems like there is an intentional attempt to rile people up. And at the same time there is this push to make it impossible for anyone to come to an agreement on anything. The most objective things are somehow now some political issue. "men can actually get pregnant", "being fat is actually healthy", and at the same time the state splits people into identity groups, convinces them that one group is out to get the other and then if anyone says the wrong thing you are charged with a hatecrime. So millions of people get no help, they are being told they are actually privileged and evil because of immutable characteristics, we are being told to group people based on those immutable characteristics. It's getting ridiculous. I feel like my time at school was more adult and coherent when it came to discussing issues. As an adult, especially in politics its as if we've taken all the ways of thinking that the scientific method highlighted as being a fallacy, and decided that all those fallacies are actually the right way of doing things.
It is a major, major cultural issue which actually stems from the individual, and you took a knock at the republicans, so I'm going to make a knock at the democrats, many on their side seem to want to group people into identity groups at the expense of their individual freedoms and merits, and it is the level of the individual that matters. We suffer, we succeed, we love at the individual level. And it is at the individual level where we need to rebuild our communities. Not all this crap about "if we can just chastise this group of people enough, or if we can just ban these weapons!". No. I think there is an intentional dark path being forged with all that, at the expense of the individual. If you haven't stabbed someone you get to keep your knife, if you haven't run someone over you get to keep your car, if you haven't shot someone you get to keep your gun. I can assure you, guns are banned here in the UK, but we still have absolutely horrible people that find other more gruesome ways to harm people. Fix that, and you'll fix almost every issue and you can keep your guns like you have for hundreds of years. This massive wave of shootings happened very recently and it goes hand in hand with all the division from the media and identitarian (which at the moment is all over the democratic party divisive crap.
If you still don't believe me, I've really studied this, both looking at the history of the US, similar movements in Europe and Asia, and also on the individual psychological level, so I'm happy to say more.
A few years ago, here in the UK, several Islamic terrorists ran down london bridge and killed quite a few people with knives. They were only stopped when an officer with a gun shot them. If innocent people were allowed to be armed, the second a knife came out, their gun would have been pulled out, no need for casualties. In France there was a similar attack in a church in which several people were decapitated with a knife. Again, armed church, end of story. The media never likes to make much of a fuss about all this because it goes against a lot of the narratives from the left, but over here in Europe the attacks are pretty much daily, deadly and without guns. If we were allowed to be armed and were more cohesive, we wouldn't have issues.
I'm not a republican, neither a democrat. But I am in favour of being allowed to be armed. I do not think any person has the authority to tell another human that they are not allowed to defend themselves, regardless of if they wear a suit or give themselves a title.
I'm glad we agree on the long term solution, but it's the only thing that works. Short term solutions are just quick fixes and then another short term thing is needed, and another, and another, and politicians will take advantage. I don't think it is actually poverty that causes this, as you are not exactly in dire straits if you have enough money spare for an assault rifle and ammo. And I know plenty of people not that well off who are completely sane when in the right environment.
I think it's more the culture. There are countless millions of people who know they are never going to get everything out of the only life they have, whilst a very small number of people get everything. And then these same well off people say "you are privileged because of your gender, or your skin colour. You might be homeless, but you're white. You might be suffering from a crippling illness, but you are a male" it almost seems like there is an intentional attempt to rile people up. And at the same time there is this push to make it impossible for anyone to come to an agreement on anything. The most objective things are somehow now some political issue. "men can actually get pregnant", "being fat is actually healthy", and at the same time the state splits people into identity groups, convinces them that one group is out to get the other and then if anyone says the wrong thing you are charged with a hatecrime. So millions of people get no help, they are being told they are actually privileged and evil because of immutable characteristics, we are being told to group people based on those immutable characteristics. It's getting ridiculous. I feel like my time at school was more adult and coherent when it came to discussing issues. As an adult, especially in politics its as if we've taken all the ways of thinking that the scientific method highlighted as being a fallacy, and decided that all those fallacies are actually the right way of doing things.
It is a major, major cultural issue which actually stems from the individual, and you took a knock at the republicans, so I'm going to make a knock at the democrats, many on their side seem to want to group people into identity groups at the expense of their individual freedoms and merits, and it is the level of the individual that matters. We suffer, we succeed, we love at the individual level. And it is at the individual level where we need to rebuild our communities. Not all this crap about "if we can just chastise this group of people enough, or if we can just ban these weapons!". No. I think there is an intentional dark path being forged with all that, at the expense of the individual. If you haven't stabbed someone you get to keep your knife, if you haven't run someone over you get to keep your car, if you haven't shot someone you get to keep your gun. I can assure you, guns are banned here in the UK, but we still have absolutely horrible people that find other more gruesome ways to harm people. Fix that, and you'll fix almost every issue and you can keep your guns like you have for hundreds of years. This massive wave of shootings happened very recently and it goes hand in hand with all the division from the media and identitarian (which at the moment is all over the democratic party divisive crap.
If you still don't believe me, I've really studied this, both looking at the history of the US, similar movements in Europe and Asia, and also on the individual psychological level, so I'm happy to say more.
LordShadowfire · 46-50, M
@pianoplayingsteve
I already asked you a question. So I'll restate it, if stating "republicans do x" does not mean referring to all republicans, then if someone on the far right says "muslims do x", do they not mean all muslims?
Look. People join groups because they like the way the group thinks. That's why it's called groupthink. But that doesn't necessarily mean that everybody in a group agrees 100% with what the group thinks.
pianoplayingsteve · 31-35, M
@LordShadowfire It's a simple question that I asked...
pianoplayingsteve · 31-35, M
@pianoplayingsteve " But that doesn't necessarily mean that everybody in a group agrees 100% with what the group thinks". Yes, exactly.