I'm confused over whether Poland actually supports Ukraine or not... The mainstream news describes Poland as a staunch supporter, but back in 2022

Poland made a weirdass announcement that they were completely ready to send all their Mig aircraft to Ukraine IF the US gave them brand new jet fighters. The US hadn't been notified so obviously nothing happened.

Then Poland declared they could deliver the Migs but only if they went through Germany first, something the Germans hadn't discussed so obviously nothing happened. In 2023 Germany gave approval for Polish Migs to be sent.

Now it's 2024 and Zelensky says that not only have no Migs been sent, Poland refused to help intercept Russia missiles flying over its airspace.

Have I got this timeline right? Does anyone have info on what Poland has actually sent to Ukraine?

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Burnley123 · 41-45, M

The have a fairly close relationship.

They even jointly hosted the Euros in recent memory. The historic fear/hatred of Russian runs deep for the Poles.

They were ruled by the USSR, partitioned in WW2 and it goes back a lot further: deep into the eighteenth century. Poland has spent maybe two hundred years under Russian rule.

Despite not being a rich country, they have taken loads of Ukrainian refugees and are heavily invested in Ukraine winning this war.

CedricH · M

In 28 months of hard fighting, the Ukrainian air force has lost at least 28 MiG-29s that analysts have verified. Between them, Poland and Slovakia have donated 27 MiGs as replacements

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/07/09/polands-last-few-mig-29s-could-go-to-war-in-ukraine/

Poland was the first country that actually provided fixed wing aircraft to Ukraine but its own defense needs (to ensure air defense/policing) naturally limited the amount of MiG-29s that were and are expandable.

plungesponge · 41-45, M

@CedricH see this is what I find confusing. The article actually says

Between them, Poland and Slovakia have donated 27 MiGs as replacements, but some of those airframes were unflyable—and useful only as sources of spare parts.

which matches what Zelensky said about no Migs ever having been sent.

The help just doesn't seem all that helpful

DeWayfarer · 61-69, M

Poland had to be very tight with any information or overt help. Everything was done covertly.

Belarus is a Russian block neighbor. They can seem to be overtly obvious. Hence the misdirection to Germany.

Poland has to be careful. And so does Zekensky. It's not that big of a mystery why Zekensky is saying what he is saying.

Heartlander · 80-89, M

Didn't Ukraine mostly support Hitler and the Nazis during the war?

The Russian-Ukraine relationship is more complicated than what's presented on TV.

Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@Heartlander It is and it isn't.

What's not complicated is that the majority of Ukrainian people don't want to be ruled by Russia.

SStarfish ·

Who knows.. i doubt they even know what they are doing

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Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow Speaking of 1795: You mean Prussia and Austria. Germany didn't exist yet as a country. The Poles did hate the partition of their country at the time and volunteered enthusiastically to fight in Napoleon's armies. After Napoleon's demise, they were again partitioned.

The Poles hold plenty of grudges against Russia historically. The most recent period of direct domination ended only in 1989.

Speaking of WW2 atrocities: the USSR signed a pact with NAZI Germany to partition Poland in the first place.

The history matters but the most significant thing is that modern Poland feels that modern Russia is a current existential threat. They feel no threat like this from Ukraine and hosted the Euros jointly with them. Poland has even gone on record supporting Ukraine joining the EU.

The history between the two is complicated and somewhat bitter. Those issues however, pale into insignificance when it comes to what they both feel about Russian imperialism.

You know a few historical facts but your understanding isn't as good as you are trying to present.

plungesponge · 41-45, M

I think I'm getting a way clearer picture. It definitely seems like Poland isn't quite an enthusiastic ally as the media would simplify, but they definitely despise the Russians more.

They're mostly positioning themselves to get as much US hardware as possible while not making themselves a target or letting the Russians gain more power

Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@plungesponge If you were Polish, would you care more about historical grievances or. current existential threat?

They are enthusiastic allies for practical purposes. That it's based more on United fear of a common enemy than brotherly love is besides the point.

Fyi, Pics has been consistently uncritical of Russia. I wouldn't trust his knowledge of history either (see above).

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