The Crisis at the US Borders - Compromise in sight but probably will be rejected

@Heartlander Good explanation! Too bad the reason isn't about human need and compassion.
I don't understand one point: what is a sanctuary jurisdiction? And then: Are illegals allowed to vote before they become citizens?

@Heartlander The "dreamers" thing was to help people brought here as *kids* to have a path to citizenship in the primary country in which they were raised, the only country some of them remember.

[quote]Democrats fight tooth and nail to keep questions about citizenship OFF US Census forms.[/quote]

Read the Constitution. The census is about people in America, for directing federal funds proportionally.

Asking about citizenship tends to send people underground who most need public transit, etc.

@SomeMichGuy I think I like what you're saying, I just don't clearly understand what you mean by it: I take it that non-Citizens can vote and that is why they hide their status? That seems irrational! If they aren't paying taxes or are not registered for social programs, why should they be able to vote? But: If they are being coerced and impeded from becoming legal citizens, then that is another story!
I don't know the underside of the story, but it seems (hearing the chit-chat) that there are many, many people living in the USA who are hiding from the law? I can see where the 'Dreamers' pose a problem if their parents can't be extradited, but surely refugee status comes into play sometime in the process?

@JollyRoger No, non-citizens can't vote.

The census counts people, period. Asking about citizenship status in THAT context makes undocumented people afraid and sends them underground; so they use resources, but don't get counted or get undercounted

Many undocumented aliens work, and it has been reported that some who are here for years pay taxes (I'm not sure how).

Many immigrants come here for opportunity and work hard, start small businesses, etc. And DJT was [b][c=BF0000]wrong[/c][/b] in his characterization of immigrants as being criminals, rapists, etc.--just look at tge crime statistics.

Most desiring to emigrate from South of the US are fleeing ruined economies, unsafe regimes, etc. If we were to take our Monroe Doctrine [i]responsibilities[/i] seriously, we'd try to help each nation in the Western Hemisphere succeed and have richer, happier nations who would be friends, allies and trading partners.

The pie can grow. It isn't a zero-sum game.

@Heartlander

@SomeMichGuy Here's a pot calling the kettle black (not really a suitable metaphor these days, is it?)
Here in Canada we live a life of luxuries - good housing, clean air, more clean water than we really need and lots of land on which to grow our food. We have 'some' urban ghetto problems, but mostly we have ethno-centric groupings where people come from other countries and 'sort of' set up house in areas where there are people like them (sounds radical??). We have lots of space so people can go where they see opportunity - Mostly Toronto, Montreal, Calgary or Vancouver. But many have an agricultural interest and so they buy up farms and keep them going.... they also buy up more farms and businesses as they prosper and bring in more folk from their home countries - immigrant owners will hire their own ethnicity over others. AND THOSE PEOPLE WORK HARD!
In comparison to the USA we have a very small economy (small GDP) and our taxes are quite high because we have many social benefits to support. But the off-set is that everyone gets to enjoy the social benefits so it's really just a 'common pot' rather than a tax on the rich. And, our tax system is set up so that employment benefits (stock dividends, company car, perks of almost any type) are calculated as income: So the rich get taxed on a scale up to a maximum and the poor can earn a minimum level of income with no tax owed at all. In Canada we have learned to share wealth.
Thus, there is very little (but some) grumbling about the poor living off the rich - some of that comes about when we see our Aboriginal people not using their wealth to advange - (we pay them 'Treaty Rights" money and give them free education, free medical care and don't charge them tax on their income) and they let themselves become ill (both in health and morality) and draw more than 'necessary' on the social system. But don't get me wrong: There are many Aboriginal individuals and entire communities where the people are healthy and productive. We also have a 'newer' phenomenon of young people realizing that they don't have to pay tax if they beg in the streets and go to homeless shelters and soup kitchens. This is a burning issue because our winters are colder than in some countries and these people put unnecessary pressure on the social system for extra housing, extra clothing, extra food and the 'real needy' people have to scrample to get their share. This draws criticisms about our system too - especially from entrepreneurs who can't get these able people to take jobs and learn to be reliable and productive. Yes, we could overcome these problems if our Parliamentarians had any 'guts' to face them as problems. Reality check: votes keep them in a job!
So: in a nutshell, that's us. You probably already knew that stuff.

What we see (me) by contrast in the USA is that individualism is 'everything' i.e., if you don't earn it, you don't get it and if you don't have it, you do without (or get it by crime). And what I see is that because there are immigrants coming into the USA (the land of Hope and Glory) and they are industrious, that the 'Settler" society (mostly white people who came in as explorers, religious refugees or immigrants a century or more ago) become indignant of the encroachment (betterment actually) and that these 'newcomers' are 'taking' jobs away from them. Really they're not 'taking' - they just have a better work ethic and are willing to make the sacrifices of long days and no vacations to get settled (and wealthy). But there's a backlash and that is 'racism' - the urge to limit the ability of newcomers to advance. Yes, there is still a thriving 'slaver' mentality too that plays into this.
The USA is split by the 'rich' , the 'poor' and the 'working class. The 'poor' don't count as they just do without or have to contribute to the crime problem. The "rich" own the multi-national trade, HiTech, manufacturing and food production industries AND the seats in Government. With them having the seats in Government it's very much like the 'newcomers' bringing in more family: The Congress-people see 'likeness' in the people who pay their wages and are quite willing to look the other way at racism and inequalities of wealth distribution instead of [i]addressing [/i]them as problems. Reality check: votes keep them in a job. Then there are the 'working class' who because of their unwillingness to leave the comforts of their hometowns or urban neighourhoods, have depended on each other and the 'rich' business owners for their localized comfort. With the rapid chnges in our economies (robotics, tech - trades, and lower demand for a strong backed person), they find themselves in a survival quandry BUT: they vote! Their vote is the axe they can use to hew the Government into the shape they want it to be! And THAT is where Mr. Trump is capitalizing. He has come across as an ignorant well-dressed red-neck with low moral values who has achieved 'The American Dream" and he has lied and cheated his way into the White House with false promises to deliver these adulating souls a "Make America Great Again" dream.that he cannot deliver. The rest of the world knows it, but he's the slave-master of a multitude of zombies at this time and he's happy (smirkingly so) to ride that wave - again!
Where are the lawmakers in America? They are (mostly) White, but they have segregated themselves into Red and Blue uniforms and there is just no room in Congress for Purple. They are playing a card game of 'War' where each side tries to grab the most cards and there is very little compromise and definitely no camaraderie (openly). Why does America have such a schism of political will (it's not even ideology) that reasonably intelligent and respected leaders can't do the job of giving and taking without trying to 'take it all'? That is a very discomforting problem in a so-called Democracy.

@NativePortlander1970 Legal immigrants do not threaten ANYONE'S way of life. LEGAL immigrants make this country better.

Oh, and INDIANS are not native to this country. They just happened to be the first to get here, (from Asia.)

@JollyRoger Hmmm? I think you have just made a case for bussing those 7 million illegals from our southern border to the Canadian border :)

@Heartlander that’s awful. I can’t believe at your age, you still feel that way.

@Heartlander Then you can pick those vegetables living in a shack in a field for $3 a day. Or sew your own clothes. Or pour your own coffee for $2 an hour. No American would ever do those jobs. You feel entitled but why am I paying your entitled Medicare benefit? Same difference according to your party.

@JollyRoger [quote]Are illegals allowed to vote before they become citizens?[/quote]

No, but they are counted in the US Census and that's what determines how many members of congress and members of the electoral college a state gets.

@JollyRoger [quote] Too bad the reason isn't about human need and compassion.[/quote]

You really think compassion is the driving force for Biden's border policy?

If compassion drove our treatment of immigrants running for their lives to escape drug gangs and brutal dictators we'd be setting up UN refugee camps to provide safety and security BEFORE the refugees set out on 1,000+ mile journeys, where they are raped and mistreated by drug gangs and thugs along the way.

What we ARE doing is impowering murderous drug cartels and brutal dictators.

@Livingwell [quote]Then you can pick those vegetables living in a shack in a field for $3 a day. Or sew your own clothes. Or pour your own coffee for $2 an hour. No American would ever do those jobs. You feel entitled but why am I paying your entitled Medicare benefit? Same difference according to your party.[/quote]

(1) Clothes ... Most clothes labels I've peeked at say "Made in Vietnam" or "Made in Guatemala" or "made in Mexico". It's been years and years since I've seen one that says "Made in the USA".

(2) Vegetables ... Haven't you heard about how the Drug Cartels are taking over the Avocado industry in Mexico? As for picking crops in the US, the more serious issue is the mobile status of migrant workers. Otherwise they are a pretty happy lot. I've met some and admire their work ethics and family values. I've even attended a few farm workers celebrations, and they are anything but the gloomy, oppressed victims.

(3) Pouring coffee ... I always pour my own, and don't send my self an invoice.

(4) Entitled ... I don't feel entitled. Medicare? I contributed to the Medicare Trust fund for my entire working life, and didn't see a penny in benefits until I turned 65. Lets not go into the fairness or unfairness of healthcare now. It's a subject that's overdue a very heated discussion. Do you realize that since 2012, Medicaid reimbursements for care facilities has gone up just 13%. Meanwhile, core inflation is up 34% for that same period. That's a 21% gap that has to be absorbed by less quality care and/or cost shifting the cost of care to those who do not qualify for Medicaid. Since 60%+ of nursing home patients are being paid by Medicaid, the remaining 40% who don't qualify for Medicaid have seen a 45%+ rate increase for nursing home care over the past 10 years. So, if you have DNA evidence that you may one day be unmercifully afflicted by Alzheimer's, and may have to spend time in Memory Care, and you don't qualify for Medicaid,

To ellipse back to the question, you are paying my entitled Medicare benefits because congress took the money that I paid for those benefits and spent that money elsewhere. And now they are using your contributions to pay for my benefits.

@Heartlander #2 is a good example. They are happy because what we would never do, they are happy to work hard for the little pay they get. It’s why they migrated here! Either way, there are not easy fixes for all of the above. (Except you pouring your own coffee)

No party has all the answers. Anyone that thinks that is just burying their head!

@Handfull1 I have a good memory of attending a celebration years ago when the USPS released the Cesar Chavez postage stamp. It was a big deal, and the guest speaker was the then president of the UFW. He was very inspiring and downright humorous. He spoke of their work in terms of dignity not that they were doing America's dirty work.

An issue with farm workers is much like with factory workers, they are competing against automation. and automation is in many cases winning. It has little to do with work that no one else would do.

@Heartlander I somewhat agree with your point. Being an engineer, I have seen this. AI is a big threat to programmers. In farming, automation is slow to come because of the high costs of equipment. Farmers can't afford it. So they use migrant labor. I live in a small rural farming area. People buy used and fix everything because competition with large corporate farms is fierce. Locals also support them by buying local farming products. And being a rural area, change is slow. But that means the people are friendly and help one another.

@Heartlander Maybe! But they seem to prefer the "Land of the Free" rather than the "Land of Ice and Snow"