Do you think government is capable of remedy all your ills ?

@eli1601 in the US, it is a government of the people.

@eli1601 I agree. You have a terrible government...

@whowasthatmaskedman Any government does more harm than good

@eli1601 I can see how you might think that with your experience. But a"well ordered" government that provides services and support with equity and is not bought by special interest groups throwing money at people who need it to be elected and are hopelessly compromised from the start will out perfom a bunch of "rugged individualists" every time. I might remind you that it was a nation with a single goal that won WW2, put a man on the moon and builds Supercarriers. Its not my fault you no longer have that kind of government..😷

@whowasthatmaskedman Nobody has that kind of government. In fact, nobody ever did. The positive things government has done pale in comparison to the positive things that have come from the private sector for profit. Including weapons of war.

@eli1601 And when a nation is in peril it is the communities that unite that prevail. That does preclude individuals profiting. But if you look at WW2 and the space program, the whole nations industry was geared, linking and coordinated to the task and was unstoppable. Fifty years later, Branson Musk and Bezos still cant match it..😷

@whowasthatmaskedman In the case of war, it's self preservation and things go back to normal as soon as it's won. The space program was nice, but a lot of people made a lot of money. If the profit motive wasn't there, it would have failed. In fact, it was the federal government bribing (in a good way) private companies to develop what the government wanted developed.

@eli1601 OK. Developing what the government (not individuals ) wanted developed.. How is that not my point??😷

@whowasthatmaskedman Read my original post. I said the government does more harm than good. Not that they did no good. And even the few good things cause what we have today. 30 trillion dollars in debt and people depending on government for everything.

@eli1601 And I totally agree that the US government in particular terrible and has been since the late seventies..The Norwegian or Swedish governments on the other hand. Or the New Zealand or even Australian governments have been brillinat in comparison. Although not perfect.😷

@whowasthatmaskedman let those on glass houses throw the first stone! Despite it's warts, the US has managed to continue to remain the desired house on the hill.

@samueltyler2 For the moment thats true.. But that $30 Trillion bill is about to come due and they wont take printed $ when it hits..😷

@whowasthatmaskedman i am afraid you don't understand that most of the deficit is owed to itself. It is a complex situation, you can't run a country as you would a household. I am a fiscal conservative, and would like to see a more balanced budget, but, is really not possible, it hasn't been since the country was established.

@samueltyler2 "i am afraid you don't understand that most of the deficit is owed to itself. " I will give you a chance to explain that.. Trust me.. I can handle a little complexity on the subject..😷

@whowasthatmaskedman just one example, the government borrows money regularly from both the medicare and social security trust funds. It uses that for other purposes and is then counted into the deficit. Additionally, since the trust funds appear not the grow at a sustained rate, to match the borrowed funds, and needs for service, they are said to be in danger of bankruptcy. But, the holder of the loan is the US government, not 😊 me other country, etc.

@samueltyler2 Now that may appear on the budget deficit, depending on the accounting.. But it has nothing to do with the foreign debt. That is money owed (mostly non government) To business and governments in overseas countries, for goods already delivered and consumed by Americans.. Heres how that works. Saudi Arabia ship a tanker full of oil to America. Now If trade were in balance, the Saudis would use the $US the US gave them from the oil for that new military hardware they just bought from the US. But America imports a lot more oil..So they have to effectively give the Saudis the balance in $US..Which the Saudis then stuff under their matress for a rainy day.. OR, the Americans have to take out a loan from some nation who have a trade surplus with the Saudis and pay interest on that loan...
Or, the Chinese do a deal with General Motors to make suspension and brake parts for all the GM cars out of detroit. And the same thing applies. China import way less from the US than they export. Now all this is done through various trading banks in binary code. But the end result is that over time the US ends up with the equivalent of a massive credit card debt to other countries,. And while you can print more Paper money, you cant make it worth more. America found a way around part of that by being the reserve trade currency in most dealings. But China and the Saudis are in the process of pulling that rug out from under the US. And a global recession will lower trade volumes anyway.. So America is already living beyond its means by over a $ trillion annually. So thet sale to be cut from the spending just to break even. Then we have to talk about paying for all the stuff America bought on that credit card.. And that is about $US 32 Trillioin right now..😷

@whowasthatmaskedman you are correct about foreign loans, but the majority of the deficit is structural and a great deal is internal, not to foreign countries. Interestingly, those who call for lowering the debt, are the same ones who vote to give tax relief to the rich and to corporations. If everyone paid their "fair share," don't ask me how to arrive at that, the deficit would disappear. The last 2 democratic administrations managed to handle that well, then the republicans came to power and the debt rose considerably, mostly because of tax credits/cuts/


don't swear by Dr. Google, but it is at least, a good starting point:
"As of November 2022, federal debt held by the public was $31 trillion. Debt held by the public was estimated at 96.19% of GDP, and approximately 33% of this public debt was owned by foreigners. The United States has the largest external debt in the world."
"What is the main contributor to U.S. debt?
From FY 2019 to FY 2021, spending increased by about 50%, largely due to the COVID-19 pandemic. Tax cuts, stimulus programs, increased government spending, and decreased tax revenue caused by widespread unemployment generally account for sharp rises in the national debt."


https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2022/09/the-federal-government-has-borrowed-trillions-but-who-owns-all-that-debt

@samueltyler2 Sorry. I am calling this off. We are clearly talking at cross purposes. What I am speaking about has nothing to do with taxes, or budget allocations. It is about America as a culture buying stuff from everyone else and effectively paying in IOUs. Now what will happen is that sooner or later someone will stop shipping you stuff until you agree to pay in something other than $US. Like Gold, or Euros , or Yuan. And them make you buy them. And watch the bum fall out of the value of the $ and the cost of imports rise. I'm done here.😷

@whowasthatmaskedman it is all related. If you are only speaking about a trade balance, that is another story. But the total deficit is related to expenses and income. The government's income is mostly taxes, so the balance of the scale changes when either side changes, either purchasing more or less, or taxing more or less. It is simple math as far as that is concerned.