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Penny · 46-50, F
im a nationalist not a socialist. i believe in strong borders. we as people of the planet have different cultures and its a way to strengthen them. not only that but i truly believe sometimes God wants war. Maybe its a way to control the population or maybe not but in any case i think people fighting to the death for what they believe in or to preserve their way of life is better than the alternative we get - genocide or ethnic cleansing. i think God may sometimes want that too. its a better alternative than also resorting to human sacrifice like in an Incan/Mayan way.
PDXNative1986 · 36-40, MVIP
@Penny
In India, those of us who have expressed views on Nuclear Bombs, Big Dams, Corporate Globalization and the rising threat of communal Hindu fascism – views that are at variance with the Indian Government’s – are branded ‘anti-national.’ While this accusation doesn’t fill me with indignation, it’s not an accurate description of what I do or how I think. Because an ‘anti-national’ is a person who is against his or her own nation and, by inference, is pro some other one. But it isn’t necessary to be ‘anti-national’ to be deeply suspicious of all nationalism, to be anti-nationalism. Nationalism of one kind or another was the cause of most of the genocide of the twentieth century. Flags are bits of colored cloth that governments use first to shrink-wrap people’s brains and then as ceremonial shrouds to bury the dead.
When independent-thinking people (and here I do not include the corporate media) begin to rally under flags, when writers, painters, musicians, film makers suspend their judgment and blindly yoke their art to the service of the “Nation,” it’s time for all of us to sit up and worry"
-Arundhati Roy.
it's from a speech I love, especially because she makes an excellent point about the way that military cementaries around the world are filled with the graves of men who believed god was on their nation's side.
In India, those of us who have expressed views on Nuclear Bombs, Big Dams, Corporate Globalization and the rising threat of communal Hindu fascism – views that are at variance with the Indian Government’s – are branded ‘anti-national.’ While this accusation doesn’t fill me with indignation, it’s not an accurate description of what I do or how I think. Because an ‘anti-national’ is a person who is against his or her own nation and, by inference, is pro some other one. But it isn’t necessary to be ‘anti-national’ to be deeply suspicious of all nationalism, to be anti-nationalism. Nationalism of one kind or another was the cause of most of the genocide of the twentieth century. Flags are bits of colored cloth that governments use first to shrink-wrap people’s brains and then as ceremonial shrouds to bury the dead.
When independent-thinking people (and here I do not include the corporate media) begin to rally under flags, when writers, painters, musicians, film makers suspend their judgment and blindly yoke their art to the service of the “Nation,” it’s time for all of us to sit up and worry"
-Arundhati Roy.
it's from a speech I love, especially because she makes an excellent point about the way that military cementaries around the world are filled with the graves of men who believed god was on their nation's side.
Penny · 46-50, F
@PDXNative1986 hmm. maybe im incorrect on my definition of nationalism. i will look into it. sounds like India has it backward unless i am misunderstanding?
PDXNative1986 · 36-40, MVIP
@Penny Oh completely in the united states fortunately we don't have a regular feature where Mexico regularly promises to nuke us into armageddon the way Pakistan constantly Threatens the same to India and the same in inverse to make us suspicious of the nationalism of our own country as well as the other one next to us the way She does. That's gotta have an impact on the Calculus there. I'm not a fan of the idea of Countries though. Civic nationalism seems non offensive but it's just studies show opening our borders would double the GDP and while I'll concede the GDP is not a great measure of economic progress I'd like to know more about how it would effect other measures like the genuine progress indicator.
Penny · 46-50, F
@Zonuss thats too bad because teh united states is a melting pot. caucasians are just the majority or at least were. dont confuse nationalism with racism. its about strong borders and preserving traditions and culture. african - americans or black people are part of those. would you liek to see the us turn into like a new china or mexico? its not about racism its about preserving culture and identity. the chinese and latino population is also part of american culture. maybe its about dominance that youare thinking but to me its not. welcoming people from foreign countries is like a mainstay of america but in a controlled manner.
yes, the origination of america as we know it was really sketchy with teh whites coming and killing a lot of the natives and subjugating their culture but i guess thats what is trying ot be avoided in a sense with nationalism- other people taking over and changing everything.
yes, the origination of america as we know it was really sketchy with teh whites coming and killing a lot of the natives and subjugating their culture but i guess thats what is trying ot be avoided in a sense with nationalism- other people taking over and changing everything.
PDXNative1986 · 36-40, MVIP
@Penny I'm aware, you could hardly live here without becoming aware of disagreeing with the majority and having a minority view. I do think the case for open borders has been understated. It's been pilloried, but we really should think deeper about it rather than reflexively dismissing it. It is likely to have strongly positive economic impacts. We need more studies. Don't rush into anything, you know? dismissing it or accepting it.
PDXNative1986 · 36-40, MVIP
@Penny I was hoping you'd reply so I could expand upon my actual thoughts, my frustration looks something like https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2018/08/06/open-borders-economy-workers
That is interesting, but, The idea that we should do anything because it will make the GDP go up is a bad one. If I get plastered on Moonshine and then take moms Camry At 120 down the road and get into a terrible car wreck with myself and other people but somehow everyone survives and end up in prison for it, the GDP will go way up. But we're all worse off. All of us. Certainly, if there are positive economic impacts about this one, I'd like to know about them, but not from a fatally flawed measure of success like the GDP.
[media=https://youtu.be/XQ--kgECOnw]
That is interesting, but, The idea that we should do anything because it will make the GDP go up is a bad one. If I get plastered on Moonshine and then take moms Camry At 120 down the road and get into a terrible car wreck with myself and other people but somehow everyone survives and end up in prison for it, the GDP will go way up. But we're all worse off. All of us. Certainly, if there are positive economic impacts about this one, I'd like to know about them, but not from a fatally flawed measure of success like the GDP.
[media=https://youtu.be/XQ--kgECOnw]