This page is a permanent link to the reply below and its nested replies. See all post replies »
UndeadPrivateer · 31-35, M
UndeadPrivateer · 31-35, M
Oh boy. So many things. Even counting out all the political corruption. Do you have any familiarity with economics? Or perhaps just simple addition and subtraction? Depending on your knowledge of economic function you may or may not understand the actual implications of many of the things he is doing, but I can try to simplify things down to just a matter of raw numbers. The picture is not a very pretty one.
bigjohndl · 70-79, M
Lots of talk without saying anything. Typical Demo talking points.
Yes I am aware of Economics. I have had 15 different businesses in my lifetime and I retired at age 50. I know that the Dow Jones is up to some of it's highest averages since Trump took office. I know that several businesses that I still dabble in have improved and new business secured.
Wonder what picture you are looking at? The talking heads picture of the Democratic party that preaches gloom and doom?
Why don't you try to look at things in a positive view for a couple of weeks and then tell us what is so bad?
Don't worry, we won't tell the DNC that you are looking for real answers for those two weeks.
Yes I am aware of Economics. I have had 15 different businesses in my lifetime and I retired at age 50. I know that the Dow Jones is up to some of it's highest averages since Trump took office. I know that several businesses that I still dabble in have improved and new business secured.
Wonder what picture you are looking at? The talking heads picture of the Democratic party that preaches gloom and doom?
Why don't you try to look at things in a positive view for a couple of weeks and then tell us what is so bad?
Don't worry, we won't tell the DNC that you are looking for real answers for those two weeks.
katielass · F
@UndeadPrivateer: If trump has done "oh so many things" you should be able to list them. That you can't proves you're just talking out your ass. The fact is, you don't like him because you're not supposed to like him but you really don't know why. And that demonstrates that you cannot think for yourself.
UndeadPrivateer · 31-35, M
@bigjohndl: I'm not a democrat. That's a pretty empty insult to hurl at me and I don't really give a flying fuck what the DP wants to do. I didn't particularly love either of the candidates of the last election cycle. Might want to try to make less snap judgments about other people's political alignments.
So, if you know economics then you should understand that money doesn't simply arrive out of thin air. Money has to come from somewhere. You should also realize that we have a national debt problem which is only getting worse with time. You should also realize that there is no real connection between individual business success and the government, as there were many businesses that survived and even thrived through both the Great Depression and the recent Global Economic Recession.
The government needs money in order to function, as a person who has run businesses I am sure you understand that institutions rely on capital in order to function. Taxes are how the government gets that money. Now, while you don't [i]necessarily[/i] need to increase taxes to reduce the national deficit, if you are going to reduce taxes then you also need to be reducing spending. If you aren't, then you're [i]increasing[/i] the deficit and worsening the problem. I assume you're familiar enough with Trump's economic policies, since you're a self-proclaimed businessman, to understand why this is a bit of an eyebrow raiser.
Now, let's just assume you don't care about taxes and you'll throw that entire argument out the window. Fine, you're entitled to being stubborn about facts. There are also other economic factors that are highly worrying. The first of them is toxic assets. Toxic assets are a complicated economic factor which can basically be boiled down to "debts which the owner is incapable of paying," though it is honestly considerably more complicated than that. One of Trump's approaches to improving employment rates is to encourage the creation of small business by reducing regulations on benefits and pay. Less benefits means that the employees are forced to get those same services from elsewhere with out of pocket costs, and reduced pay means that they have less money to pay those out of pocket costs with. A new population subset with lower pay and less benefits will then give rise to a larger amount of toxic asset generation, which worsens the national debt.
So maybe you don't care about toxic assets either. That's the poor people's problems and it's up to them to fucking deal with it or just go die in a ditch. Fine, again you're entitled to being stubborn about facts. The second economic factor aside from taxes that I'll bring up is global trade dominance. On a national scale we quite heavily rely on international trade to keep our economy running in tip top shape, relatively speaking at least, and much of our trading power actually comes from a bargaining position granted to us by being a global economic leader and trade superpower. The current administration's retreat from the global trading stage is very quickly leading to us losing huge amounts of ground to the Chinese who are more than eager to snap up the place that we occupy/occupied. Once you have fallen out of that position it becomes [i]incredibly[/i] difficult to nearly impossible to recover, as their trade economy is now larger than yours and thus even if it is simply growing at an identical rate to yours you will never catch up and will in fact only fall increasingly far behind.
If you don't care about taxes, toxic assets or trade dominance then I have no idea what kind of economic education you have but you're still entitled to your opinion. Maybe you care about future economic growth on national scales? Let's approach that. Trump's primary focus has been on "reviving" the coal and fossil fuel markets. This approach is more than a little economically dubious from multiple angles. The coal industry is dying, there's no question about that on a global scale. And it's not because coal mines are just closing down because the government ordered them. Nations simply are not buying as much coal as they used to and the entire market is in rapid decline. Fossil fuels, meanwhile, are hitting something of a plateau at the moment and their future viability is strongly questionable as alternative energy sources not only generate more jobs, and are thus more economically viable, but are actually supplanting the market space that fossil fuels had previously occupied.
Maybe you want to ignore that too. Fine. How about the future prospects and economic viability of extraterrestrial mining operations? How about the space industry in general? Perhaps you heard of Trump's recent plan to give funds over to NASA for a Mars mission? Let's look at that for a moment. NASA has been in decline for decades and has repeatedly shown that it lacks the administrative ability to properly and efficiently delegate funds to missions that have worth beyond the purely scientific. It is also being rapidly outpaced by a privatized space industry that is not only developing far more rapidly than NASA ever had but is also employing more people than NASA ever has.
Economic viability and employment, surely that must strike a chord with you if you've got some business experience. NASA has also shown no interest whatsoever in extraterrestrial mining beyond the far future prospect, meanwhile that is the goal that the vast majority of private space companies are interested in. There was a palladium rich asteroid that only just recently passed between the Earth and the Moon. Shockingly close, a prime target for mining. The worth of the asteroid was ballparked in the region of [b]15 trillion dollars.[/i] Just mull that number over in your head for a little bit. Now, let's take that thought and go back to global trade for a moment.
Imagine for a moment that we lose the space race with China, which is all but assured if we rely on NASA to keep up with them. China begins to mine these space rocks and begins bringing back goods worth literally [i]trillions of dollars.[/i] Now think about that trade dominance problem and how trade growth worsens the condition over time. Now think about the size of the US GDP, about 16.7 trillion dollars. What do you suppose happens to us in relation to China on the global scale when their GDP becomes [i]orders of magnitude[/i] greater than ours? The entire situation becomes completely hopeless. You might as well have Cuba trying to compete with the US or China. It doesn't matter how hard we try, we're never going to be able to catch up.
Maybe you want to keep ignoring the facts and just hurl insults at who you deem to be political opponents and revel in your little social bubble, but the world doesn't actually work that way and it will happily pass you by. I have no desire to see the US devolve into something of a Westernized version of North Korea, I will actually look at the facts and judge them for what they are. If you actually understand economics like you claim to then there should be nothing crazy about any of this to you, but there's nothing stopping anyone from making crazy claims about anything on the internet. So for all I know you could just be blowing smoke and all of this just went straight over your head. I sincerely hope that is not the case.
So, if you know economics then you should understand that money doesn't simply arrive out of thin air. Money has to come from somewhere. You should also realize that we have a national debt problem which is only getting worse with time. You should also realize that there is no real connection between individual business success and the government, as there were many businesses that survived and even thrived through both the Great Depression and the recent Global Economic Recession.
The government needs money in order to function, as a person who has run businesses I am sure you understand that institutions rely on capital in order to function. Taxes are how the government gets that money. Now, while you don't [i]necessarily[/i] need to increase taxes to reduce the national deficit, if you are going to reduce taxes then you also need to be reducing spending. If you aren't, then you're [i]increasing[/i] the deficit and worsening the problem. I assume you're familiar enough with Trump's economic policies, since you're a self-proclaimed businessman, to understand why this is a bit of an eyebrow raiser.
Now, let's just assume you don't care about taxes and you'll throw that entire argument out the window. Fine, you're entitled to being stubborn about facts. There are also other economic factors that are highly worrying. The first of them is toxic assets. Toxic assets are a complicated economic factor which can basically be boiled down to "debts which the owner is incapable of paying," though it is honestly considerably more complicated than that. One of Trump's approaches to improving employment rates is to encourage the creation of small business by reducing regulations on benefits and pay. Less benefits means that the employees are forced to get those same services from elsewhere with out of pocket costs, and reduced pay means that they have less money to pay those out of pocket costs with. A new population subset with lower pay and less benefits will then give rise to a larger amount of toxic asset generation, which worsens the national debt.
So maybe you don't care about toxic assets either. That's the poor people's problems and it's up to them to fucking deal with it or just go die in a ditch. Fine, again you're entitled to being stubborn about facts. The second economic factor aside from taxes that I'll bring up is global trade dominance. On a national scale we quite heavily rely on international trade to keep our economy running in tip top shape, relatively speaking at least, and much of our trading power actually comes from a bargaining position granted to us by being a global economic leader and trade superpower. The current administration's retreat from the global trading stage is very quickly leading to us losing huge amounts of ground to the Chinese who are more than eager to snap up the place that we occupy/occupied. Once you have fallen out of that position it becomes [i]incredibly[/i] difficult to nearly impossible to recover, as their trade economy is now larger than yours and thus even if it is simply growing at an identical rate to yours you will never catch up and will in fact only fall increasingly far behind.
If you don't care about taxes, toxic assets or trade dominance then I have no idea what kind of economic education you have but you're still entitled to your opinion. Maybe you care about future economic growth on national scales? Let's approach that. Trump's primary focus has been on "reviving" the coal and fossil fuel markets. This approach is more than a little economically dubious from multiple angles. The coal industry is dying, there's no question about that on a global scale. And it's not because coal mines are just closing down because the government ordered them. Nations simply are not buying as much coal as they used to and the entire market is in rapid decline. Fossil fuels, meanwhile, are hitting something of a plateau at the moment and their future viability is strongly questionable as alternative energy sources not only generate more jobs, and are thus more economically viable, but are actually supplanting the market space that fossil fuels had previously occupied.
Maybe you want to ignore that too. Fine. How about the future prospects and economic viability of extraterrestrial mining operations? How about the space industry in general? Perhaps you heard of Trump's recent plan to give funds over to NASA for a Mars mission? Let's look at that for a moment. NASA has been in decline for decades and has repeatedly shown that it lacks the administrative ability to properly and efficiently delegate funds to missions that have worth beyond the purely scientific. It is also being rapidly outpaced by a privatized space industry that is not only developing far more rapidly than NASA ever had but is also employing more people than NASA ever has.
Economic viability and employment, surely that must strike a chord with you if you've got some business experience. NASA has also shown no interest whatsoever in extraterrestrial mining beyond the far future prospect, meanwhile that is the goal that the vast majority of private space companies are interested in. There was a palladium rich asteroid that only just recently passed between the Earth and the Moon. Shockingly close, a prime target for mining. The worth of the asteroid was ballparked in the region of [b]15 trillion dollars.[/i] Just mull that number over in your head for a little bit. Now, let's take that thought and go back to global trade for a moment.
Imagine for a moment that we lose the space race with China, which is all but assured if we rely on NASA to keep up with them. China begins to mine these space rocks and begins bringing back goods worth literally [i]trillions of dollars.[/i] Now think about that trade dominance problem and how trade growth worsens the condition over time. Now think about the size of the US GDP, about 16.7 trillion dollars. What do you suppose happens to us in relation to China on the global scale when their GDP becomes [i]orders of magnitude[/i] greater than ours? The entire situation becomes completely hopeless. You might as well have Cuba trying to compete with the US or China. It doesn't matter how hard we try, we're never going to be able to catch up.
Maybe you want to keep ignoring the facts and just hurl insults at who you deem to be political opponents and revel in your little social bubble, but the world doesn't actually work that way and it will happily pass you by. I have no desire to see the US devolve into something of a Westernized version of North Korea, I will actually look at the facts and judge them for what they are. If you actually understand economics like you claim to then there should be nothing crazy about any of this to you, but there's nothing stopping anyone from making crazy claims about anything on the internet. So for all I know you could just be blowing smoke and all of this just went straight over your head. I sincerely hope that is not the case.
bigjohndl · 70-79, M
LOL, wow, to hear you tell it, Trump has accomplished a lot in the little over two months he has been in office. Did you actually think that he would assume office and all of the previous issues would be immediately dealt with and the slate wiped clean? He is cleaning up some big messes while trying to get people back to work. I could address all these talking points you brought up but the laughter I had when you are talking about mining asteroids made for some side splitting pain. Just lasso that asteroid and send a crew up with a big bucket!!!
Your side never wants to talk about all the things the previous President did to increase all of the problems you lined out. Especially the national debt and the "toxic assets" you speak of.
And people in Wyoming would disagree with you on the coal industry. The Dems wanted it shut down because they think it destroys the ozone and enviroment. There is enough coal there to supply the coal fired electric plants for another 100 years or more. That does not count the other coal rich states.
At least you are a liberal giving Trump some credit, although way to much for 2 months.
Go back and graduate from your liberal arts college. You are still wet behind the ears. And take what your liberal profs say with a grain of salt.
Your side never wants to talk about all the things the previous President did to increase all of the problems you lined out. Especially the national debt and the "toxic assets" you speak of.
And people in Wyoming would disagree with you on the coal industry. The Dems wanted it shut down because they think it destroys the ozone and enviroment. There is enough coal there to supply the coal fired electric plants for another 100 years or more. That does not count the other coal rich states.
At least you are a liberal giving Trump some credit, although way to much for 2 months.
Go back and graduate from your liberal arts college. You are still wet behind the ears. And take what your liberal profs say with a grain of salt.
bigjohndl · 70-79, M
You will excuse me if I don't follow this topic anymore. I need to go build a space truck to catch me one of them asteroids so I can get me some space palladium. Not sure what I will do with it but I am sure someone needs some somewhere.
UndeadPrivateer · 31-35, M
More empty insults directed at something I am not. You really need to learn to debate like an adult rather than a child throwing a temper tantrum.
Edit: Wow, you don't know what palladium is for or how incredibly important it is? That's. Fucking. Hilarious.
Edit: Wow, you don't know what palladium is for or how incredibly important it is? That's. Fucking. Hilarious.