SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
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SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
@LegendofPeza Copying someone else's homework . .
KunsanVeteran · M
@SunshineGirl …just like a Melania inauguration speech you could say…
PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M
One way or another objective reality has to come into play at some point.
And the 28 point plan is a starting point that is finally accepting objective reality. Neither side is going to accept it as it is but it is a starting point.
And like it or not Ukraine will have to cede territory. The question is whether it is this or a surrender document when the Russians march all the way to the Polish border.
Either way it doesn't matter because Zelensky and co will likely be flown out of the country, setup in their oversees mansions and play at "government in Exile" for the rest of their lives and their great grandchildren will claim to be the rulers of Ukraine from Toronto, London, or NYC.
There are certainly some things on that list that the Russians want but to claim it is their wishlist is just dishonest or you have never read it.
The Russians will never accept the peace process being overseen by some grand council run by Trump and they sure as hell are not going to be ok with rebuilding Ukraine from stolen Russian assets.
Ukraine is not a free country and has not being since it was overthrown by the US and UK in 2014.
And the "Free World" has always been code for the American Empire.
And the US is not a respected country outside the echo chamber of the G7.
It never has been.
Economically the G7 "free world" is also becoming more irrelevant by the day.
This is the surrender terms of the US empire's 30 year march through eastern Europe.
Fitting it should die the same year as Dick Cheney the guy who kicked it off in 1991.
And the 28 point plan is a starting point that is finally accepting objective reality. Neither side is going to accept it as it is but it is a starting point.
And like it or not Ukraine will have to cede territory. The question is whether it is this or a surrender document when the Russians march all the way to the Polish border.
Either way it doesn't matter because Zelensky and co will likely be flown out of the country, setup in their oversees mansions and play at "government in Exile" for the rest of their lives and their great grandchildren will claim to be the rulers of Ukraine from Toronto, London, or NYC.
There are certainly some things on that list that the Russians want but to claim it is their wishlist is just dishonest or you have never read it.
The Russians will never accept the peace process being overseen by some grand council run by Trump and they sure as hell are not going to be ok with rebuilding Ukraine from stolen Russian assets.
Ukraine is not a free country and has not being since it was overthrown by the US and UK in 2014.
And the "Free World" has always been code for the American Empire.
And the US is not a respected country outside the echo chamber of the G7.
It never has been.
Economically the G7 "free world" is also becoming more irrelevant by the day.
This is the surrender terms of the US empire's 30 year march through eastern Europe.
Fitting it should die the same year as Dick Cheney the guy who kicked it off in 1991.
PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M
@G7J2O Fair. Perhaps you are ignorant of some of the facts here. There are alot of people here who argue in bad faith and dismiss anything they don't like as "Russian propaganda".
And for the record I don't like anything about Trump. In fact I doubt he had anything to do with this document. But someone in the State Department is starting to accept reality.
And for the record I don't like anything about Trump. In fact I doubt he had anything to do with this document. But someone in the State Department is starting to accept reality.
G7J2O · 36-40, MNew
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow No, he didn't. It's been reported that the "peace plan" was drawn up by Kirill Dmitriev, Putin’s envoy, together with Steve Witkoff. Also, it's been reported that the use of language in the plan suggests it may have been written in Russian and later translated into English.
PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M
@G7J2O Lol. Conspiracy theories. Reading the actual text proves that is absurd. All kinds of cope and conspiracy theories to avoid admitting the truth that western imperialism is dead and Western Europe is irrelevant.
And half the points of the document consists of the US selling off Ukraine to American conglomerates. I mean they already are doing that but Zelensky promised the Americans resources they largely no longer have control over.
It also demands things of the Russians that simply cannot happen like seizing territory outside the so called 5 regions. That is a non starter and the idea the Russians would propose that shows the people making that claim either know nothing about Russian politics or they are pushing conspiracy theories because pretending Trump is some secret KGB sleeper agent is easier to swallow than believing the West has lost.
And half the points of the document consists of the US selling off Ukraine to American conglomerates. I mean they already are doing that but Zelensky promised the Americans resources they largely no longer have control over.
It also demands things of the Russians that simply cannot happen like seizing territory outside the so called 5 regions. That is a non starter and the idea the Russians would propose that shows the people making that claim either know nothing about Russian politics or they are pushing conspiracy theories because pretending Trump is some secret KGB sleeper agent is easier to swallow than believing the West has lost.
AthrillatheHunt · 51-55, M
TexChik · F
So sayeth the Liberal. Ukraine is corrupt, and its leadership was willing to launder American dollars for democrats and RINOs for a piece of the pie. In a country ravaged by war, losing one conscripted generation after another on the battlefield... its leader lives lavishly and eats meals most Ukrainians or Russians, for that matter, can only dream about. Then he flies all over the world begging for more money and materials. He has suspended all elections ( presumably because of the war ), and is in no hurry to end the war that keeps him in power and flush with cash.
G7J2O · 36-40, MNew
@TexChik Interesting how your outrage is aimed at the country being invaded rather than the one doing the invading.
Yes, Ukraine has corruption issues, so does every country in a war for its survival (and not even if they're at war...) but that still doesn’t make handing Putin their land a peace plan.
The election delay is literally required under martial law, not some secret Bond-villain plot to keep Zelensky in office 😂
And if Zelensky is supposedly swimming in piles of U.S. cash, it’s odd that every Western intelligence agency somehow missed it, while Facebook commentators somehow cracked the case.
Complaining about a wartime leader eating real meals while Russian missiles fall on cities is quite the moral compass flex. Even if you dislike Zelensky, pretending Russia’s invasion is his fault is like blaming a mugging victim for owning shoes.
But fine, if bold claims with no evidence work for you, carry on :)
Yes, Ukraine has corruption issues, so does every country in a war for its survival (and not even if they're at war...) but that still doesn’t make handing Putin their land a peace plan.
The election delay is literally required under martial law, not some secret Bond-villain plot to keep Zelensky in office 😂
And if Zelensky is supposedly swimming in piles of U.S. cash, it’s odd that every Western intelligence agency somehow missed it, while Facebook commentators somehow cracked the case.
Complaining about a wartime leader eating real meals while Russian missiles fall on cities is quite the moral compass flex. Even if you dislike Zelensky, pretending Russia’s invasion is his fault is like blaming a mugging victim for owning shoes.
But fine, if bold claims with no evidence work for you, carry on :)
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G7J2O · 36-40, MNew
@TexChik Hehe, funny how you sprint straight to “open borders” like it’s a fire escape. You’re calling everyone “libs,” but you still haven’t produced a single verifiable fact to support your original claims.
Ukraine being invaded isn’t an EU problem any more than 9/11 was just a New York problem.
And Trump “expecting reimbursement” for aid Congress approved is not how alliances (or math) work.
Nobody’s denying there are challenges at the border, but pretending that means Russia gets a free pass to annex a sovereign country is a curious bit of logic.
And by the way, deflection noted. You’re trying to change the subject because your earlier points fell apart the moment evidence was mentioned.
But if buzzwords feel safer than facts, I get why you keep using them.🤭
Ukraine being invaded isn’t an EU problem any more than 9/11 was just a New York problem.
And Trump “expecting reimbursement” for aid Congress approved is not how alliances (or math) work.
Nobody’s denying there are challenges at the border, but pretending that means Russia gets a free pass to annex a sovereign country is a curious bit of logic.
And by the way, deflection noted. You’re trying to change the subject because your earlier points fell apart the moment evidence was mentioned.
But if buzzwords feel safer than facts, I get why you keep using them.🤭
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G7J2O · 36-40, MNew
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow I don't know how this sorry saga will end, but it won't end this way.
PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M
@G7J2O If it doesn't end through negotiations like this than thousands of Ukrainians will dies for nothing.
But then again. The west doesn't care as long as they kill more Russians.
That is why the west has never had a plan of Ukraine beyond killing more Russians.
Oh and western countries taking anything not nailed down in Ukraine right down to and including the literal land.
But then again. The west doesn't care as long as they kill more Russians.
That is why the west has never had a plan of Ukraine beyond killing more Russians.
Oh and western countries taking anything not nailed down in Ukraine right down to and including the literal land.
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wildbill83 · 41-45, M
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BohoBabe · M
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