BREAKING: U.S. poised to strike military targets in Venezuela
[media=https://youtu.be/KCiFiTOdrvE]LETS BE CLEAR HERE i believe this is for oil and not drugs
61-69, M
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ArishMell · 70-79, M
Chilling.
That repoert shows that whatever it is, the real motive for wanting to attack a foreign country is not clear. Everyone will know only if the President explains it. Speculation does not help.
The constitutional aspect is murky: does the American President have the authority to launch attacks on a foreign country without full Congress knowledge and approval?
Is such attacking legal internationally? I expect the USA's enemies would find great propaganda value in it; and her allies are not likely to support her.
Will the strikes take place? That doesn't seem clear either. Readiness to attack does not mean it will happen, but Venezuela has not threatened the USA. This is the US President wanting to strike without clear purpose, planning or governmental permission.
Though her government ought be working with the US to crush the drugs trade; preferably without the cold-blooded murders those video clips show.
If the order to attack is illegal under international law, would the US Services top-brass refuse to carry it out? If so, then what?
What is the likely result? No advantage to the USA, loss of life among both Americans and Venezuelans, no ending of the drugs-running. Possibly turning most of the South American countries against her; to the delight of Russia and China, and strategic advantage of the latter.
That repoert shows that whatever it is, the real motive for wanting to attack a foreign country is not clear. Everyone will know only if the President explains it. Speculation does not help.
The constitutional aspect is murky: does the American President have the authority to launch attacks on a foreign country without full Congress knowledge and approval?
Is such attacking legal internationally? I expect the USA's enemies would find great propaganda value in it; and her allies are not likely to support her.
Will the strikes take place? That doesn't seem clear either. Readiness to attack does not mean it will happen, but Venezuela has not threatened the USA. This is the US President wanting to strike without clear purpose, planning or governmental permission.
Though her government ought be working with the US to crush the drugs trade; preferably without the cold-blooded murders those video clips show.
If the order to attack is illegal under international law, would the US Services top-brass refuse to carry it out? If so, then what?
What is the likely result? No advantage to the USA, loss of life among both Americans and Venezuelans, no ending of the drugs-running. Possibly turning most of the South American countries against her; to the delight of Russia and China, and strategic advantage of the latter.
swirlie · 31-35
@ArishMell
Nicely written! Something else to keep in mind is that a drug boat from Venezuela cannot make it all the way to the USA on one tank of fuel! In fact, it would have to stop at least 10 times between Venezuela and the closest point of landfall in the USA to refuel.
Stopping 10 times as described simply does not happen in the drug Trade. I know about this technicality because I work in the nautical marine industry and I know the range and hourly fuel consumption of every one of those alleged 'drug running vessels' that we see being attacked by drone strikes.
What would that tell us?
First of all, it would tell me that any drugs entering the USA are not coming directly from Venezuela, nor are they necessarily originating from Venezuela. So these drone attacks are clearly NOT about drugs. So far, the US military has destroyed over 60 civilian fishing boats off the coast of Venezuela and the bodies of those fishermen are now washing up on the shores of Trinidad.
What are those drone strikes about then?
I would say that positioning the largest aircraft carrier in the world off the coast of Venezuela when a war is raging on in Gaza and Ukraine, is more about distracting everyone's attention away from the fact that Americans are cowards when it comes to nuts and bolts warfare. Americans by their very nature, are not warriors nor ever have been.
The US military knows it would get it's own assss handed back to itself by Russia if the US ever went head-to-head with Russian Forces, so as long as Trump can distract everyone's attention AWAY from the war in Gaza and Ukraine by stirring up a lot of dust in Venezuela, then the world won't notice what the US is scared shittless of getting involved with.
Keep in mind that statistically speaking, the US has LOST every war it ever started in the last 213 years beginning with the war of 1812, so to start locking horns with Russia with America's abysmal military track record on the line at this stage of the game would mark the bitter end of America's fairytale of itself.
Nicely written! Something else to keep in mind is that a drug boat from Venezuela cannot make it all the way to the USA on one tank of fuel! In fact, it would have to stop at least 10 times between Venezuela and the closest point of landfall in the USA to refuel.
Stopping 10 times as described simply does not happen in the drug Trade. I know about this technicality because I work in the nautical marine industry and I know the range and hourly fuel consumption of every one of those alleged 'drug running vessels' that we see being attacked by drone strikes.
What would that tell us?
First of all, it would tell me that any drugs entering the USA are not coming directly from Venezuela, nor are they necessarily originating from Venezuela. So these drone attacks are clearly NOT about drugs. So far, the US military has destroyed over 60 civilian fishing boats off the coast of Venezuela and the bodies of those fishermen are now washing up on the shores of Trinidad.
What are those drone strikes about then?
I would say that positioning the largest aircraft carrier in the world off the coast of Venezuela when a war is raging on in Gaza and Ukraine, is more about distracting everyone's attention away from the fact that Americans are cowards when it comes to nuts and bolts warfare. Americans by their very nature, are not warriors nor ever have been.
The US military knows it would get it's own assss handed back to itself by Russia if the US ever went head-to-head with Russian Forces, so as long as Trump can distract everyone's attention AWAY from the war in Gaza and Ukraine by stirring up a lot of dust in Venezuela, then the world won't notice what the US is scared shittless of getting involved with.
Keep in mind that statistically speaking, the US has LOST every war it ever started in the last 213 years beginning with the war of 1812, so to start locking horns with Russia with America's abysmal military track record on the line at this stage of the game would mark the bitter end of America's fairytale of itself.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@swirlie Thank you for that explanation.
So, what were those fast, open boats being blown out of the water? Where were they from and going? They didn't all look like fishing boats, and the map on that video shows they were a long way from land.
Thinking about it, even if they could carry enough fuel or had convenient refueling points, could their crews cope with that long voyage?
Even so, they should have been stopped and if innocent let go, if carrying drugs brought ashore under arrest and the drugs destroyed. Not merely blown up in cold-blood.
I reserve judgement on the courage of the American front-line servicemen but their senior command never seemed to grasp that much of the fighting in the last sixty years was against geurilla forces, not regular, uniformed military units like they faced in WW2. So merely hurling masses of high explosives and millions of bullets at the country, would never work. All it achieves is widespread civilian death and destruction - though I appreciate the geurillas were not squeamish about inflicting that themselves.
This time the threat is of attacking genuine military bases... which of course, will shoot back. Perhaps helped by other countries...?
President Trump must come clean about his intentions and motives, for his own country's sake, let alone that of Venuzuela.
So, what were those fast, open boats being blown out of the water? Where were they from and going? They didn't all look like fishing boats, and the map on that video shows they were a long way from land.
Thinking about it, even if they could carry enough fuel or had convenient refueling points, could their crews cope with that long voyage?
Even so, they should have been stopped and if innocent let go, if carrying drugs brought ashore under arrest and the drugs destroyed. Not merely blown up in cold-blood.
I reserve judgement on the courage of the American front-line servicemen but their senior command never seemed to grasp that much of the fighting in the last sixty years was against geurilla forces, not regular, uniformed military units like they faced in WW2. So merely hurling masses of high explosives and millions of bullets at the country, would never work. All it achieves is widespread civilian death and destruction - though I appreciate the geurillas were not squeamish about inflicting that themselves.
This time the threat is of attacking genuine military bases... which of course, will shoot back. Perhaps helped by other countries...?
President Trump must come clean about his intentions and motives, for his own country's sake, let alone that of Venuzuela.
swirlie · 31-35
@ArishMell
The thing is, we don't know the origin of those photos we saw of boats being blown out of the water. How factually true were those photos? How old were those photos? Were those photos taken out of context from a location in another part of the world to push the American agenda on drugs? Who knows?! ...and if Trump told you, would you even believe him? ...would you believe anything that any American told you at this stage of the game?
The distance from Caracas Venezuela to Miami Florida is 1360 miles! Even if those boats could carry enough fuel, who could sit in a boat with no washroom and no running water for 1360 miles of open seas which are generally not smooth sailing conditions?! So is the idea of drug boats running from Venezuela to Florida even plausible? I think not!
The problem with the US military is that they suck at jungle warfare and they also suck at mountain warfare. The only thing left is level ground in wide-open spaces, assuming that the enemy is wearing the assigned uniform that Americans are expecting them to wear!
Where the US military falls flat on it's face is NOT being able to identity the enemy. So like you say, they merely flood the area with bombs and bullets and hope for the best.
The thing is, we don't know the origin of those photos we saw of boats being blown out of the water. How factually true were those photos? How old were those photos? Were those photos taken out of context from a location in another part of the world to push the American agenda on drugs? Who knows?! ...and if Trump told you, would you even believe him? ...would you believe anything that any American told you at this stage of the game?
The distance from Caracas Venezuela to Miami Florida is 1360 miles! Even if those boats could carry enough fuel, who could sit in a boat with no washroom and no running water for 1360 miles of open seas which are generally not smooth sailing conditions?! So is the idea of drug boats running from Venezuela to Florida even plausible? I think not!
The problem with the US military is that they suck at jungle warfare and they also suck at mountain warfare. The only thing left is level ground in wide-open spaces, assuming that the enemy is wearing the assigned uniform that Americans are expecting them to wear!
Where the US military falls flat on it's face is NOT being able to identity the enemy. So like you say, they merely flood the area with bombs and bullets and hope for the best.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@swirlie That makes the situation even worse.
It is often relatively easy for experienced journalists to establish the truth of a video by carefully examining backgrounds, etc. That works on land, but not out on the open sea; and if the boats are sunk and the crew killed, who can say where they were from?
You point out these seas are often rough. All the short military videos suggest quite calm water, perhaps just long ocean swells.
Some of those attacks were claimed to have been on the Pacific, so Colombia to Mexico? A long way West of the Panama Isthmus too. I think that's even further, making your point even more important. Someone marked that map with attack "stars"... but were those the real positions?
Whether I'd believe any American, I can't say. I would note who they are, what they say and try to think what they are trying to tell me, and why.
Sometimes, the awkward silence, or the "no-one was available for comment" in response to invitations to comment can be as important, but I do latch on to sweeping generalisations and to indefinite statements like "it is obvious that", and of course, "poised to".
It is often relatively easy for experienced journalists to establish the truth of a video by carefully examining backgrounds, etc. That works on land, but not out on the open sea; and if the boats are sunk and the crew killed, who can say where they were from?
You point out these seas are often rough. All the short military videos suggest quite calm water, perhaps just long ocean swells.
Some of those attacks were claimed to have been on the Pacific, so Colombia to Mexico? A long way West of the Panama Isthmus too. I think that's even further, making your point even more important. Someone marked that map with attack "stars"... but were those the real positions?
Whether I'd believe any American, I can't say. I would note who they are, what they say and try to think what they are trying to tell me, and why.
Sometimes, the awkward silence, or the "no-one was available for comment" in response to invitations to comment can be as important, but I do latch on to sweeping generalisations and to indefinite statements like "it is obvious that", and of course, "poised to".
swirlie · 31-35
@ArishMell
The moment Trump lobs the first biscuit into Venezuela, that is a declaration of war.
The problem is, China gets 50% of their oil from Venezuela, so is China about to sit on the sidelines as their oil supplier comes under fire from some bimbo American President?
I think what you would find is that China would send more Chinese troops into Venezuela than one can imagine even existed and the problem for the US is that the Chinese are extremely fierce warriors compared to anything the Americans have ever experienced before, including Vietnam and Afghanistan. It would be all over before it really got started and guess who wouldn't win again?
The moment Trump lobs the first biscuit into Venezuela, that is a declaration of war.
The problem is, China gets 50% of their oil from Venezuela, so is China about to sit on the sidelines as their oil supplier comes under fire from some bimbo American President?
I think what you would find is that China would send more Chinese troops into Venezuela than one can imagine even existed and the problem for the US is that the Chinese are extremely fierce warriors compared to anything the Americans have ever experienced before, including Vietnam and Afghanistan. It would be all over before it really got started and guess who wouldn't win again?
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@swirlie Let us hope Trump's idea, whatever its purpose, is just his usual king-of-the-world bluster, and does not become a definite order.
Or is it does, the entire miltary refuses on the grounds of it being an illegal order.
The USA would not win anything by fighting, but a lot of people of both nationalities would die, and all for no more than an unexplained idea by a President with very little international diplomatic experience or ability.
I thought about your suggestion that China might send troops. If they do, they risk their aircraft or ships being attacked by US forces in mid-Pacific; another dangerous move towards a world war.
Or is it does, the entire miltary refuses on the grounds of it being an illegal order.
The USA would not win anything by fighting, but a lot of people of both nationalities would die, and all for no more than an unexplained idea by a President with very little international diplomatic experience or ability.
I thought about your suggestion that China might send troops. If they do, they risk their aircraft or ships being attacked by US forces in mid-Pacific; another dangerous move towards a world war.
swirlie · 31-35
@ArishMell
The US Forces can't be in 3 different locations at once, meaning that the Chinese would face little resistance if they sent troops from China to Venezuela.
But if the US did fire upon those Chinese troops, that of itself would also be a declaration of war with China, not just with Venezuela. How well do you think that would shake out?
The US Forces can't be in 3 different locations at once, meaning that the Chinese would face little resistance if they sent troops from China to Venezuela.
But if the US did fire upon those Chinese troops, that of itself would also be a declaration of war with China, not just with Venezuela. How well do you think that would shake out?
markinkansas · 61-69, M
@swirlie gives China will invade Taiwan if we are not there .. just my thought
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@markinkansas Yes... that could be.
President Xi has frequently boasted he wants Taiwan. Never mind its residents who, by and large, seem unenthusiastic about it.
President Xi has frequently boasted he wants Taiwan. Never mind its residents who, by and large, seem unenthusiastic about it.
swirlie · 31-35
@markinkansas
China will invade Taiwan regardless of America presence in the region. China controls the USA in all facets of Trade and Commerce and China will do what China wants to do with Taiwan anytime China is ready.
China will invade Taiwan regardless of America presence in the region. China controls the USA in all facets of Trade and Commerce and China will do what China wants to do with Taiwan anytime China is ready.
markinkansas · 61-69, M
@swirlie so much easy when we are not on that side of the world... why not take advantage of it