Shame on anyone who still thinks Israel is acting in "self-defense"

@ChipmunkErnie The answer is that Israel need to recognise Palestine and go from there. They have been violently dismantling Palestine since the moment Israel was created.

P.S. And you don't think the Israelis have thousands upon thousands of Palestinian hostages? Or do they not count?

@wishforthenight Israel was willing to recognize a Palestinian state back in 1947 -- it was the Arab nations that didn't. Even pre-WWII, in 1937 the Arab nations refused the Peel Commission proposal to create Israeli and Palestinian states because they were sworn to NEVER allow a Jewish state and to eradicate the Jews. And yes, it's a total mess.

@ChipmunkErnie Maybe Israel was willing to then, but they soon changed their mind and didn't even pretend to hold to the original plan. Now they plan to bisect the West Bank and ensure there will never be a contiguous area that will be called Palestine.

Israel does not want peace. They continue to massacre up to this day.

@wishforthenight And the Arabs are so nice and kind to them.

@ChipmunkErnie Deflection noted. It's clear you see no evil from Israel so we'll leave it at that.

@wishforthenight On the contrary, I see a lot of evil from the current Israeli government, as do many Israeli Jews and non-Israeli Jews. But if I lived in Israel under almost a century of threat of extinction I think I'd be very scared and willing to fight fro survival. Perhaps your problem lies in the fact that the Israelis keep winning when attacked?

@ChipmunkErnie At no point in their history has Israel been in genuine threat of extinction. You know that, I know that. They have absolute power over the whole of the West Bank and Gaza, and always have. They had turned Gaza into an open prison before the 7 Oct attacks. Clearly they wanted a lasting peace ...

@wishforthenight You need to read your history.

@ChipmunkErnie To be fair if you were being told that you had to give up parts of your land, your country, to accommodate what was going to be mainly foreigners / immigrants / colonists (pick your own description) on the basis their ancestors from 2,000 years ago used to live there you wouldn't be too happy.
And peace is the only solution. And that means Israel returning to the 1967 borders, Palestinians accepting the state of Israel. That will require demilitarised zones controlled by the UN. Will that end terrorism? Probably not, there will still be extremists that won't accept any peace agreement, but peace is the way to persuade people that ending terrorism is the way forward. Problem is that currently Israel is creating a new generation of Palestinian terrorists, and allowing an increasing number of West Bank Settler terrorists (some may argue about that description).

@ChipmunkErnie I have. What's happening in Gaza is not without precedent. In the 1948 Palestine war, more than 700,000 Palestinian Arabs were expelled or fled from their homes, and Israel’s military carried out dozens of massacres targeting them. That's a fact.

@wishforthenight And what caused it -- the attack of five Arab nations dedicated to the elimination of Israel. War sucks for everyone. The Palestinians HAD land of their own until the various Arab attacks led to Israel expansion via winning those wars.

@ChipmunkErnie After having their land violently taken from them. That's what caused it. But as usual with Israel, their punishment never fits the alleged crime. Witness the 2-year barbaric campaign of genocidal revenge Israel is waging now, and will continue to wage, regardless of any so-called "peace" deal.

Btw I blame any Israeli leader who does not actively seek a peaceful resolution. I don't blame the Israeli people. The trouble is, those leaders have been as rare as hens teeth.

@wishforthenight They only had the land taken AFTER the Arab attacks. But other Arabs didn't want the Palestinians in THEIR lands either, hence all the refugee camps. Palestine, aka the West Bank -- and a bit of Gaza --, existed well into the 1960s and wasn't lost until the Arabs attacked again.

@ChipmunkErnie I'm talking about the creation of Israel itself. Why do you slavishly defend Israel?

@wishforthenight Israel exists, it's that simple. Was there a legal reason that justified it's creation? I don't think so. But the Jewish survivors of the Holocaust went to the Holy Land en masse: the Allies had turned them away, the Axis had tried to exterminate them, and they went where their god told them to go. Despite the odds against them they survived and prospered. Do I agree with the current Israeli government, no. Can I understand Israeli fear and paranoia, yes.

@ChipmunkErnie I was nearly with yoh until "they went where their god told them to go". No, they went where extreme Zionists told them they should go". And where those extreme Zionists were committed acts of terrorism eg King David Hotel.
You'd think a state founded on terrorism would understand Hamas etc much better.

@22Michelle No, they went with the millenia-old "next year in Jerusalem" concept. The extreme Zionists were for it, the Holocaust survivors were for it, Jews all over the world were for it. And yes, Israel was born in violence is SO many ways, but it was founded by a people who felt they had no where else to go and survive.

@wishforthenight There are no palestinian hostages. Those would be prisoners.

@ChipmunkErnie 1947? It's been happening since at least the 1920's. There was a riot in Jerusalem in 1920 and another in Jaffa in '21 just to name 2.

@ChipmunkErnie And they drove out the people who were living there, who had been lving there for generations.