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Quick way to double your energy costs: Get 2/3rds of your electricity from renewables.

Photo above - America's original solution to fossil fuel electricity generation.

The national average for electricity is 17 cents per kWh. In California, it’s 37 cents. More than double. (see link at bottom). If you’re paying less than 17 cents, count your blessings. If you’re paying more than California’s 37 cent rate, congrats on living in Hawaii.

Okay, I can manage my electric bill SOMEWHAT by turning up the thermostat to 78 degrees in summer. Buying a smaller refrigerator. Unplugging my “vampire” OLED TV when I'm not watching anything. Grilling outdoors instead of using the oven. Oh wait . . . that’s probably going to cost more in the end.

But what about buying an electric car? If you think is math is hard, stop reading here. Okay, are the smart people ready to proceed?

An average American EV needs 35 kWh to travel 100 miles. That electricity costs $0.37 per kWh in California. I would spend $12.60 to go 100 miles. If I drive 1,000 miles a month, that’s $126 in fuel cost. Possibly more if I’m ever trapped in a freeway traffic jam.

But I already have a Honda Civic Hybrid (purchased in November, in Florida.) It gets 50 mpg. A gallon of gas costs $3.19 this week. To go 100 miles it would cost me $6.40. To go 1,000 miles that would be $64. Plus, I earn 2% cashback rewards when I buy gas on my credit card. I get zilch when I write a check to the electric company - just a reminder in my next bill to turn off the lights when they’re not in use.

Okay, I agree that these numbers are scary. And electricity costs are rising much faster than inflation. There seems to be no way to reverse this. No, I am NOT suggesting trading in your EV on a gas car. EV trade-in values have tanked recently, probably because of high electric rates and vandalized charging stations.

Fed Chairman Powell isn’t going to tame electricity costs by jacking up the Fed Funds rates even more. Congress and the White House could continue to pass out huge grants, subsidies, and tax breaks for the electricity flavor of the month, but that’s what got us into this mess in the first place.

And kWh hungry AI is growing exponentially. More server farms. More electric cars. Electric cooktops will replace natural gas. Natural gas furnaces and hot water heaters are also on death row. There’s no good news here.

Maybe I should set my air conditioning to 80 degrees? Or build my own nuclear power plant like Amazon is doing? Actually, Amazon is building 4 dedicated nuclear power plants to operate it's AI stuff. Don't ask where the spent fuel is going to be stored . . .

I’m just sayin’ . . .

CA running 67% on ‘clean’ energy; prices double US average

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Pherick · 41-45, M

Like most things thats not the full story. A quick search and some reading shows CA electricity prices are higher for a variety of reasons.

1. Wildfire mitigation and infrastructure upgrades. These are costs the companies billions and those increases are passed to the consumer.

2. Upgrading to cleaner systems, again upgrades in infrastructure here cost money and its passed to consumers.

3. CA has a very complicated rate structure. They have peak times where electricity can cost more.

4. Also CA has quite a few power companies that all have varying rates, and those power companies lobby quite a bit, and I am sure you can imagine those costs are also passed to the consumer.

View 2 more replies »

SusanInFlorida · 31-35, F

@Pherick so your theory is that renewables could be cheaper, if we ignored wildlife and environmental protections?

coincidence, that's also the position of big oil and the nuclear industry. "Get rid of all the rules"

ElwoodBlues · M

@SusanInFlorida Go ahead, ignore the data I posted from SD, IA, & NM, even though it COMPLETELY refutes your claim🤣😂

Pherick · 41-45, M

@SusanInFlorida What? How did you get that from what I said???

Many many things, power included, could be cheaper if we ignored wildlife and environmental protections, but I like it when my rivers don't catch fire, so why don't we leave these things in place huh???

Myself, I think like alot of people, are willing to pay a little more to make sure wildlife and environmental guidelines are being followed!

SW-User

As usual, a masterclass in cherry-picking worst case scenarios, ignoring counterpoints, and wrapping it all up in sarcasm to make it seem "obvious".

Let's look at your crap in more detail.

The national average for electricity is 17 cents per kWh. In California, it’s 37 cents.”

Sure, if you wanna compare California’s peak-tier residential rates to national averages and pretend that’s what every EV owner is paying (and you do). Spoiler alert: most EV owners charge at night when rates are lower (like 12–15¢/kWh). Some even use solar, which costs… oh right, nothing.

I would spend $12.60 to go 100 miles in an EV.

Sure, if you’re charging at peak rates in California while running a bitcoin farm on the side. Most EV drivers pay half that (or less). Many EVs also use closer to 25–30 kWh/100 miles, not 35.

Math is hard when you cherry-pick worst-case scenarios, isn't it?

My Honda Civic Hybrid gets 50 mpg. It only costs me $6.40 to go 100 miles

Wow, you're amazing. Congratulations! A Civic Hybrid is efficient, sure. But let’s not pretend gas prices are stable or that you’re not still polluting. Plus, EVs have far lower maintenance costs (no oil changes, spark plugs, timing belts, etc). And if you drive in traffic? EVs sip electrons while idling; your Civic doesn’t.

I earn 2% cashback on gas… I get zilch when I write a check to the electric company.”

WOW! A check! You do know you can pay electric bills using a credit card, right? Also, if your financial strategy hinges on 2% cashback, I don't think EVs are your problem 🤣

Electricity costs are rising much faster than inflation.

True I guess, mostly due to wildfires, grid upgrades and decades of underinvestment.

But no, the problem is solar panels, right?

Maybe I should build my own nuclear power plant like Amazon is doing?

OMG! Amazon isn’t literally building reactors in Jeff Bezos’ backyard. They’re signing long-term power purchase agreements from existing nuclear suppliers. Big difference. But potato potatoe.

EV trade-in values have tanked.

They’ve dropped somewhat, yes; mainly because new EV prices are falling (which is good for buyers) and because supply is finally catching up.

But have you seen what a used ICE car is worth after 3 years? It’s also not great, is it...?

There's no way to reverse this.

Oh no, the horror!

Meanwhile, back in the real world, renewables are booming, battery tech is improving, EV adoption is growing massively, and smart grids are becoming the norm.

The future don't come with an ICE. Deal with it.

SusanInFlorida · 31-35, F

@SW-User i provided links. you responded with an unhinged rant.

additionally, you are incorrect about credit cards. in many places you cannot use them to pay for government services and utilities. not water. not sewer. not municipal electricity. not property taxes. no trash collection.

SW-User

@SusanInFlorida My "unhinged" rant was factual, and your links may be factual too, but as I pointed out, that was a worst-case scenario which you were happy to latch on to.

Crazywaterspring · 61-69, M

Electricity in the Dallas area works out to 20.7¢ kwh with fees etc. The only reason we don't have more brownouts is due to renewables that have been built in the past few years. Server farms and crypto mining are popping up everywhere (with state subsidies).

SusanInFlorida · 31-35, F

@Crazywaterspring i'm totally okay with building wind turbines and installing rooftop solar.

just not increasing everyones taxes, or adding to the national debt to subsidize this.

charge what it actually costs. don't run a shell game.

SomeMichGuy · M

The AI farm problem is real, and shouldn't be serviced by the local/regional electric company. Take out THOSE "customers" and you'd be ahead

But CA has a huge population and a huge part of the national GDP.

And nuclear power was a mirage; you know the costs were huge (ALWAYS more than the initial estimate) and the plants' lives were not as long as estimated, and then the decommissioning costs were huge.

They take up a lot of resources and create problematic waste.

SusanInFlorida · 31-35, F

@SomeMichGuy nuclear power was invented and promoted when my father came of age. before more time.

but that promotion 50 -70 years ago included BS like "electricity so cheap you won't even need a meter at your home". Sort of the same way solar and wind are being positioned.

everything needs maintenance, wears out, and needs to be replaced. Everything. Even the ISS space station which is about to fail, but which most people don't realize.

ElwoodBlues · M

@SusanInFlorida says

Quick way to double your energy costs: Get 2/3rds of your electricity from renewables.

DEAD WRONG!! No wonder you are ashamed to show an actual https:// link!! No wonder you are ashamed to show an actual graph instead of a cartoon!!

The following content is sponsored by the National Public Utilities Council

https://decarbonization.visualcapitalist.com/americas-cheapest-sources-of-electricity-in-2024/

Need another source?

https://about.bnef.com/insights/finance/cost-of-new-renewables-temporarily-rises-as-inflation-starts-to-bite/

Electric utilities are businesses with stockholders to answer to! And that's why, when planning new power plants, they look for the lower long-term cost sources! And that's why

https://epsa.org/markets-help-promote-affordable-reliable-power-sources-as-renewable-energy-overtakes-coal-as-second-largest-source-of-american-electricity/

UPDATE

So much for the broad brushstrokes; how does that play out in individual states? Here are three counterexamples that completely refute the original claim!

In 2023, South Dakota generated 76% of its total in-state electricity from renewable resources, primarily wind and hydroelectric power.
https://www.eia.gov/state/analysis.php?sid=SD
New Mexico is about 60% renewable
https://www.eia.gov/state/analysis.php?sid=NM
Iowa is about 63% renewable
https://www.eia.gov/state/analysis.php?sid=IA

Average cost in SD: 13.37 ¢/kWh
Average cost in IA: 13.41 ¢/kWh
Average cost in NM: 14.44 ¢/kWh
Compare Florida: 15.27 ¢/kWh
https://www.saveonenergy.com/electricity-rates/electricity-rates-by-state/

SusanInFlorida · 31-35, F

@ElwoodBlues my link was from the national media. not some corporate PR department like yours

ElwoodBlues · M

@SusanInFlorida says

my link was from the national media. not some corporate PR department like yours

Susan Susan Susan. Your "link" was not a link; merely some bold faced text🤣😂😝🤣😂

In any case, I'm not disputing your one single data point; I'm disputing the trend line that you seem to think is formed by that one single data point🤣😂

Kypro · 51-55, M

That’s absurd. Renewable prices are lower and would keep dropping if policy supported them instead of coal and oil.

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SusanInFlorida · 31-35, F

@Kypro we agree that pollution costs are not properly factored into energy production.

and the cost of recycling/sequestering toxic materials (EV batteries, nuclear power rods, giant wind turbine blades, etc) is not factored into those rosy "cost per kWh" projections either.

SW-User

@SusanInFlorida Even accounting for recycling and lifecycle challenges, renewables remain the lowest-cost new energy sources in most of the U.S., and far less damaging than fossil fuels.

If we included all externalities, like pollution, health, climate, and waste, fossil fuels would be the most expensive option by far. You know it, I know it.

SusanInFlorida · 31-35, F

@SW-User possibly. but this theory would be more believable if there were an actual link showing the cost to install solar or erect turbines without government grants and subsidies, which result in taxpayers putting gizmos on the roofs of somebody else.

exchrist · 36-40

Most technology that generates "carbon free" clean energy requires an obscene amount of resources to construct and initially establish. Eventually it becomes a net positive. In general solar takes about 7 to 15 years, sometimes 25 years, to "break even". Wind power is a bit quicker probably 5 to 15 years. The more energy it generates and which can be sold and utilized the faster it breaks even and then becomes profitable. Unfortunately it will be a decade at least before it "becomes profitable".
Reality.

exchrist · 36-40

Solution. Kite turbine. 1TW an hour price supply would exceed demand and price would reduce.

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exchrist · 36-40

@Amyrakunejo its best to simply cut dc out of state operations. The funding the fed is "providing" is routinely used as a bribery attempt. Infrastructure is built states ought to do their own thing (economically) for awhile. I foresee no other way to stop DC continuing to fund Israel's proxy wars.

Amyrakunejo · F

@exchrist
It's Israel (among others) funding, and controlling, the Divided States' governing offices... yeah, the other way around.
But! Cutting DC out of State ops, is a decent first step, I do agree; it must however, be a step to a quick leap forward, because, otherwise, the consequences would be dire.

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