Are you a socialist?

@Reason10 What makes this even funnier is the Friedman quote is actually an argument against capitalism.

@Reason10

@Reason10 A) those definitions seem to refer to "authoritarian enforced socialisn" more commonly known as government run communism. Socialism can be capitalism with social responsibility\safety nets, built in. To some extent it already exists given subsidies tax rebates and public supports.
It doesnt have to be an all or nothing situation. America is in a unique position to create a hybrid form.
And b) "free market capitalism" is known to result in cronnism favoritism and an elite class often characterized by favoritism and inheritence. That is hardly a "free market".

@jehova Not exactly. Those are almost entirely cold war cliches they referenced and that categorization is also cold war propaganda.


Socialism cannot be capitalist any more than feudalism can be socialist. Not a thing. Socialism is anti capitalist by definition. Has been even before Marx and Engels. What you are talking about is social democracy which was created originally to undermine socialist movements and is also typically bankrolled through neo colonialism (think most of Europe). If you want to know more look up "unequal exchange". It is also why former colonies stay poor too btw.

Social democracy was literally created to keep people just happy enough to undermine a socialist revolution and actual meaningful change.


Your last point is spot on though.

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow The desire for money is capitalist to me. Do socialists desire money? It seems they do. This is why they demand more. Everyone wants to live well. The best way to do it is to put in the effort and have the ambition. Effort is nothing without ambition. Some people love being rich, and this is why they are rich.

@emiliya Ummm no. Money has nothing to do with capitalism and predates capitalism by literally hundreds of years. Money has nothing to do with it and socialist countries actually do very well. Are you even old enough to believe cold war propaganda nonsense from 40+ years ago?

If everyone wants to live well capitalism is not the way to go. Like feudalism it just makes a tiny minority rich.

Again effort and ambition has nothing to do with an economic system. In fact based on the numbers most people in capitalist countries hate what they do for work and only do it because starving is the alternative.

It is bizarre that capitalists elevate people who horde money when it is as much mental illness as hording cats or old magazines.

@Reason10 Or as Friedrich Hayek said, "If socialists understood economics - they wouldn't be a socialist".

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow You think capitalism emerged in a factory in the 19th century. You read about in a textbook. It is a modern invention to you. I see it as a primal human instinct. It is the ownership of chattel and pursuit of wealth. It is ancient.

“If everyone wants to live well capitalism is not the way to go.”

I will say this to my grandfather next time he tells me about his terrible childhood. He will go mad. I, like him, think you are crazy. Capitalism is the only way to live well, unless you want to enter the priesthood and give every part of yourself to God.

“It is bizarre that capitalists elevate people who horde money when it is as much mental illness as hording cats or old magazines.”

It is not your money that you have earned. Get your mitts off it.

@emiliya Umm yes. You are the one who needs to read a textbook. Words have definitions. Capitalism is maximum 350 years old. And it was the late 18th century.

Human instinct? This isn't some mystical nonsense. And no chattel ownership and the pursuit of wealth is not capitalism. Again, definitions matter.


By your vibes based approach everything from ancient Roman and Greek slave economies to Iron age feudalism is "capitalism" based on nothing but vibes.


Oh right. Because one random family anecdote magically invalidates hundreds of years of macro economics. You don't deal in history and economics, just vibes.


Billionaires didn't earn shit. Good luck finding more than 5 that have had a real job a single day in their life.


A study was done on the determining factors of success in capitalism.

The results were birthright and dumb luck. So exactly the same factors under feudalism.


Sadly you are proof education has faltered since the days of the USSR.

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow I was educated in three countries. Even if I were educated during the days of USSR, I would be no different. My family do not go for communism. They hate it.

Your ideology does not change the reality. The reality is that man has sought resources for himself for thousands of years. It is often at the expense of others. You think it is about industry and wage labor. This is an ignorant view. How did we come this far without such men?

@emiliya I am guessing one of them is the USA because you have the same simplistic and factually wrong analysis as the barely educated American conservatives.


And the Trust fund baby of an oligarch makes your politics make so much more sense.


My ideology actually operates within reality. Yours on the other hand is feelings and vibes and directly contradicts history, economics and objective reality.


I see the brat of someone who got rich by exploiting others justifying that exploitation to comfort your feelings and nothing more.

Let me guess. Your family worked for Yeltsin the drunk?

@emiliya
You're leaving out the fact that nobody survived on their own. People would form societies to survive, even if they stole resources from other tribes.

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow USA is not one of the countries.

“And the Trust fund baby of an oligarch makes your politics make so much more sense.”

I come from a poor Jew family who lived on farms without electricity in far southwest of Russia. They are not oligarchs. They are not involved in politics. My grandparents made money through food production and distribution.

“I see the brat of someone who got rich by exploiting others justifying that exploitation to comfort your feelings and nothing more.”

I don't know. Is it exploitation to feed people?

“Let me guess. Your family worked for Yeltsin the drunk?”

This made me laugh. It would be funny if they had. You are a commie through and through, aren't you?

@emiliya Lol. You literally made an argument justifying exploiting people for profit in your previous post. Not me.


And I don't buy your origin story because your arguments justifying getting rich by stepping on others sounds like the kind of justifications from people like Elon Musk to justify their total lack of ethics.

And you coming from the people who pillaged Russia was a logical assumption based on your politics and your need to justify exploiting people to get ahead.

@emiliya Having been around the sun a few more times than you I can attest to the fact that each of us makes our own way in this world. We can become rich or we can remain poor. The rich are no better nor any worse than the poor. The one thing I have noted in life is if you have a sum of money and you want to help the most people give it to a rich man. He will start a business and employ people and make more money to start another business. Give it to a poor man and he will likely spend it on beer and pizza. The beer and pizza is a direct quote from a man who living on welfare won a million dollars in the lottery. A year later he was back on welfare. When asked what happened to the million he won he said he spent it on beer and pizza.

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow I am not here to make arguments. I am here to discuss. It is unfortunate I am talking with a man-child who uses the word “literally” and knows nothing about money. Ну что ж.

Most Russians do not like your type. You would be eaten alive if you came to the rural south. They would eat you alive in Ukraine too. Why don't you keep your nose out of our business?

@hippyjoe1955 You have shared wise words.

@emiliya Well lets not get personal. I grew up on a farm without electricity or phone or running water. We had a windmill that pumped water and when the wind didn't blow we had to pump water by hand. The well was 110 feet deep so it took a lot of pumping to get the water to the surface. I could ride a horse as a child and drove my first team of horses when I was about 4. I started to drive tractor when I was 5. I tended the cattle the hogs the chickens the turkeys the ducks and when I was 10 Dad gave me a small flock of sheep to pay my way through college with. I inherited my grandfather's talent for barnyard veterinary practice and have helped many cows and sheep give birth. You on the other hand can only relate what your ancestors told you. I don't doubt your ancestors I believe them because lived the same life they did when I was growing up.

@BohemianBabe “You're leaving out the fact that nobody survived on their own. People would form societies to survive, even if they stole resources from other tribes.”

What do you think happens when a man in the tribe does not pull his weight? Tribes do not tolerate freeloaders.

@emiliya No one is even talking about survival on their own although I did teach survival to aircrew in the Canadian Armed Forces.

@emiliya That is not the win you think it is. You advocating for Lord of the Flies now?

@hippyjoe1955 My grandparents still live in the area we are from. It is very rural. I admire their common sense and practical nature.

@emiliya Like Marx said, „Jeder nach seinen Fähigkeiten, jedem nach seinen Bedürfnissen.“

In a socialist society, people would still have to work, but everyone would be able to live comfortably. There would be more freedom and innovation.