I used to be a loving liberal that believe in the purest form of love.

@kittee Freedom doesn't mean free, if it is causing havoc in the grand scale.

@RisingMorningStar7 What kind of "havoc in the grand scale" are you talking about?

@Kwek00 the wellbeing of the collective and the fracture pillars that keep our democratic republic in place.

@RisingMorningStar7 Give a concrete example of how liberalism fractures the pillars of your democratic republic.

@Kwek00 Well let's begin with family it seems that our degenerate behavior and depravity is pushing for the moral codes that kept society intact.

@RisingMorningStar7 So you never were a liberal on that toppic, you take a conservative stance that wants that as many people as possible live a life that you consider to be good. And you justify by it, by stating that "the family" is one of the pillars that keeps your democratic public in place. The individual, the hero in the liberal narrative, has no choice in this. If the individual seeks out it's preffered way of living and it doesn't abide by the mold you prefer, that individual becomes a danger to those pillars.

@Kwek00 Well yea who going to take care of that person at old age? and if a lot of people follow suit and don't produce babies, were they going to get the funding for a large aging populace.

@RisingMorningStar7 Depending on the type of liberalism you buy into... it's either the individuals own responsibility OR you believe that society has a minimum responsibility to guarantee some form of positive freedom to all it's members. That last part would mean that redistribution is a nescessary tool to guarantee that kind of freedom. Well, what's wrong with some immigration to fill up workplaces and create productivity in an area, is something a liberal would say. But I don't think the state needs to be used to push people to make more kids, but I have no issue with a nudge here and there, which is already happening (ussually by doing tax-cuts and redistribution).

@Kwek00 Well if you bring immigrants that are low skilled that means they will take welfare.

@RisingMorningStar7 If these people work and contribute in your system, they have the right to take the same welfare other workers have. If those empty spots in your labor process, were filled up by natives, those natives would also take welfare. If you get taxed and pay for the system, then the system is at least obliged to embrace you as a contributing member. What's wrong with that?

Also... Immigrants only need the skills they need to do the job that they need to do. The same as natives btw... 🤷‍♂

@RisingMorningStar7
When you figure out how letting immigrant workers that pay into your social system by working and being taxed,
OR a low-skilled immigrant doing a low-skilled job that low-skilled natives could do,
... breaks down the pillars of the democratic republic... you let me know okay?

@Kwek00 surely all americans are immigrants,, only the first nation people are genuine americans

@kittee That's really not what @RisingMorningStar7 is talking about...
I think that information is also not important in this particulair context.

@Kwek00 american is heavily under populated. 360 odd millioni snothing, china has a billion so does india,how could oyu fight a war against them, they would win a war of attrition,

@kittee And this relates to the toppic how?